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ali_lapointi dont want to give off the impression that i dislike sgc. i happen to think sgc is a great grading service. i've found sgc to be at times very strict in its centering minimums and at other times very lax. so the point i was trying to convey to dave was that he's looking at a 50/50 chance depending on who is in that day and who's hands its in. it seems as though some graders at sgc have different standards than others, which i guess is something you'd have to assume when dealing with different people. i will always prefer an sgc holder over a psa one, but i, just like many others, get frustrated when the chips dont fall my way as they have for others.