[G1911]

Originally Posted by AustinMike

The ”troll” happens to be correct. Your name calling doesn’t change that fact.

What name were you called? Were?

Originally Posted by AustinMike

What you’re wanting to do is change the definition of the word “choice” in order to match your politically motivated ideology. If a third grader is told that he needs to eat his broccoli or else he doesn’t get dessert, that third grader knows he has a choice. (A) Eat the broccoli and get dessert or (B) don’t eat the broccoli and don’t get dessert. Not even a third grader is naïve enough to think that since both options aren’t favorable to him, he has no choice.

You’ve created a strawman argument. Neither the “troll” or I have said what I’ve put in bold above. Let’s say a parent tells his third-grader to steal the neighbor’s hose or get punished. The third-grader is given a choice between two options. But it is not acceptable for the parent to make this demand. Even the third-grader would know that. [/QUOTE]

He very directly said this. The argument that because there is a possible choice to break the law or accept the consequences of pressure, the action is justified. That was the argument. Very directly. It is right here, on this same page, in the transcript. Learn to read.

Originally Posted by AustinMike

As pointed out by others, and as far as I’m aware, there is no federal or state requirement forcing people to get the covid vaccine. You’re arguing a politically motivated false construction. But even if there had been a federal or state requirement that everyone get the vaccine, you’d still be wrong. “Nobody denies that there is sometimes necessity of coercion.” “In a good society, the coercion is only used for the bare minimum necessary for a functioning and safe society.” The vaccines have been proven to safe and effective in reducing the severity of the virus. Hence, if the vaccine had been required for all to take, it would have been for the safety of society and would be justified. Even by you.

Not a single person has written that a law was passed forcing the vaccine in the United States. You keep arguing against things you appear to have made up. We have said many corporations used economic leverage as the tools of force to effectively make peoples medical decisions for them. The use of force here was, while strongly supported and encouraged by the state, directly of the economic variety from most large employers and many smaller ones.

I don't think I said any action taken under the label of safety is justified. I would love to see that post! My specific example you cut out was that we have laws against murder, because a society cannot function without some limiters. A minisucle reduction in an absolute risk rate for a flu is, and here's an area where a reasonable argument could actually happen, not doing a whole lot for the security of the citizen body that drives people to live together in societies.

Originally Posted by AustinMike

It’s unfortunate that you don’t think the vaccine has helped. But I get that your political ideology won’t allow you to go there. Hence, you attempt to change definitions and make strawman arguments in order to show what a big, bad government we have.

I have written about 100 times in this thread that I think the vaccine has had a positive impact, and is an effective pre-treatment that lessens the risk of severe cases, and may be a good option for this. I do not know how to make it clearer than that. I do not know why I have to repeat this for the 101st time. I really wish our leftists could learn to read. I know it is evidently extremely confusing to you all that Irv and I do not agree either, but I'm sure if you try really, really hard you can do this.

I am greatly amused every time our posters who keep rejecting the need for textual, evidentiary or logically consistent bases like to play false straw man.

Nowhere did I say we have a totalitarian state - no nation in the history of the world has operated on bnorth's postulation you are defending as I have written multiple times. Our example is the logic used to justify the position; not an actual state. Are you genuinely unable to read?