Originally Posted by BobC
Yes, go ahead and criticize all you want. But if you hate it here so much, why don't you move to Russia? Then you can complain about everything over there as freely as you do here.
As for de-escalating the war, I can think of a lot the U.S. has done. The sanctions for example are a non-aggressive way to try to peaceably coerce another country into stopping their horrific actions of invading a neighboring country, bombing them and killing thousands of innocent men, women, and children, destroying their infrastructure, and then declaring that areas they occupy are now annexed by them and part of Russia now. We've sent resolutions and messages asking Russia to stop the killing and fighting, and to leave the Ukrainian people alone, and to vacate the land they illegally took from them. After the fall of the Soviet Union in 1991, the Ukranian people voted overwhelmingly to once again be separate and apart from Russia, and it was formally recognized by the rest of the world, and the U.N. Yet the Russian government refuses to believe that and declares that Ukraine is full of Nazis and is somehow setting its sights on attacking Russia. So, to defend themselves, Russia has to attack them first? I don't remember seeing, reading, or hearing anything, anywhere about Ukraine, or anyone else, talking about invading Russia for any reason at all. Also, if Ukraine was so full of and under the control of Nazis, as the Russians claim, how in the hell did a majority of them ever elect, or ever allow to be elected, a Jewish President? I'm still trying to figure that one out. The U.S. has also not formally entered the war (And it is a war, not that "special military operation" BS that Russia spews), nor has it ever threatened to send in troops, or even mentioned using nuclear weapons. Instead, the U.S. has asked Russia to stop the fighting and go back home and leave the Ukranian people alone. What else would you want them to do to de-escalate this war.........have the U.S. tell the rest of the world that Ukraine is now part of Russia and send U.S. troops to help Russia gain full control of the country as it wants? Or maybe quit sending ammunition and weapons to the Ukrainian people that they need to defend themselves so Russia can now quickly roll over them and take over the entire country, before moving on to the next eastern European country that was formerly illegally claimed by the Soviet Union to take them over as well, and then the next, and the next, and so on? And what makes you think Russia will ever stop? It has already been discovered that there are Russian plans to go and try taking over Moldova now, or is that all BS fake news as well? One of the funniest jokes on the planet, right up there with the Russian Foreign Minister getting laughed at by the G20 crowd just last week for daring to say that Russia was attacked first, is Russia declaring the Ukraine is full of Nazis so that Mother Russia has to de-Nazify it. What an effing joke! Russia's leaders should go looking in the mirror, as they are, and have been, doing exactly what Hitler did. Create a police/military force to control and punish anyone who disagreed with his policies, thinking, and aims. Declare sovereignty over areas of other countries, thereby giving Germany the right to invade and take them over, thereby liberating the German speaking people in those other countries. View and criminalize minorities and other marginalized groups as being harmful to the German people and way of thinking, using that to further solidify the people behind him and his actions. (Just thinking of how many times I've heard how many Russian people have derogatory racial terms they use and apply towards Ukranian people, look down on them, or how some have even talked about eliminating them and their children altogether.) My God, it's like someone gave the Russians a copy of Hitler's "Mein Kampf" after ripping the cover off and replacing it with a cover from Karl Marx's "Communist Manifesto", and that is what they're now going by. Russia is literally following and using the exact same playbook that Hitler used, including accusing others of being and doing exactly what they are first, so as to further continue to lie and justify their own actions and negate other's ability to accuse them of being what they really are. Russia's government is by and far the biggest "projector" I can think of currently on the face of the planet.
Projection - One kid punches his brother for no apparent reason and then promptly yells out, "Mom, he hit me!" Guess which brother is Russia?
Meanwhile, a better question would be to ask you exactly what the Russians have done to de-escalate this "special military operation"? They fired the first shots, they entered a neighboring country without provocation and/or ever being attacked or fired upon, and have killed, raped, and maimed thousands and thousands of innocent civilians, including children. They have taken thousands and thousands of Ukrainian citizens back to Russia to special Russian "education" camps, to help them assimilate back into Russian life and thinking (wonder how that has been going for all of them). They attacked and took over a nuclear plant, that through their idiocy and ineptitude, they have risked a large part of Europe with the fallout of another nuclear disaster. They have hired mercenary forces that are literally criminals, rapists, and murderers to fight, pillage, and plunder Ukraine for their benefit and gain. They have claimed to be defending and freeing Russian speaking people that lived in Ukraine and are Ukrainian citizens (which actually gives Russia no right at all to declare anything about anybody) and thus give them more reason to invade a neighboring country. If these so-called Russian speaking people were so disgusted with being in the Ukraine, why didn't they just move back over across the border to be in Mother Russia?
Gee, wouldn't that be the same thing if say Mexico said that there are a lot of Spanish speaking people in the U.S., and that they were being harassed and abused by Americans, and therefore they had every right to invade and attack Arizona, Texas, and other U.S. border states to defend and protect those Spanish speaking people? And then once they got across the border, following their initial unexpected attack and invasion, now quickly declared those sections they occupied as annexed and now formally part of Mexico. Oh, and that if the U.S. dared to counterattack to try to take any of these now annexed areas back, they would consider that as formally invading their country, and therefore they would be justified in firing nuclear weapons, or anything else that they may have, at the rest of the U.S. to defend themselves from a U.S. invasion. Sound at all familiar? Yet, it is pretty much the exact same thing that is being spewed by Russia in regard to Ukraine and their people.
So, what exactly have the Russians done to de-escalate this BS war that they, and they alone, started? Russia could easily de-escalate it in a heartbeat by ordering their troops to cease fire, and retreat from the Ukraine territory back across the actual, original Russian border. I can't wait to hear your brilliant answers in response. This should be fun, as I'm going to enjoy responding directly to each and every point you are going to try and make as to how the Russians did anything to de-escalate this war, and ripping them all to pieces for their idiocy.
And another relevant question for you. if another part of Russia's concern and reasoning for attacking Ukraine was because of some perceived expansion on the part of NATO and the EU, it seems Russia and its leaders are even dumber than we thought. Now you have both Sweden and Finland going for NATO membership, and doesn't Finland actually share a longer border with Russia than Ukraine does? So, I guess we should expect another Russian "special military operation" to be taking place in Finland soon as well, huh? Oh wait, that's right, the Finns are actually putting up walls/fences along their Russian border as I type this. To keep out more Russians from creeping into their country, so Russia can't later declare the Finnish people are abusing their Russian speaking brethren in Finland, and thus use that as another reason (excuse) to invade and attack Finland as well then.
The problem for Russia's leaders though is that they were too stupid to realize the Ukrainian people didn't want Russian rule, and that their underling yes men cronies all lied to them. They thought Ukraine had already been infiltrated by enough of their designated covert people, and that they had created enough conflict and turned enough Ukrainian people into Russian sympathizers so that when Russian troops did invade, they thought they would be met by mostly all these open-armed Russian sympathizers, all the way to Kyiv. My guess is that the underlings didn't dare to honestly tell their superiors that they couldn't just take what they wanted. But I think the Russians know better when it comes to Finland. In fact, if Russia did try the same stunt with the Finns, I could not only see them quickly stopping Russia's advances, but then turning the tables and heading right to Moscow to go after the Russian leaders and all their cronies.
And as for the Neocon lying BS, are you referring to the Gulf War of the '90's? If so, Iraq invaded Kuwait, and a coalition of 34 nations went in to stop Iraq and free Kuwait. The U.S. wasn't acting alone. Also, the world oil supply was likely deemed at risk, and created a bit more heightened interest than otherwise. It is also a fact that the U.S. has had a Mutual Defense Assistance Agreement in place to defend Saudi Arabia since 1951. I wouldn't be surprised if the U.S. involvement back then also had something to do with honoring their agreement with the Saudis, since Kuwait also bordered Saudi Arabia, as did Saudi Arabia also border Iraq. Gee, there's a novel idea. A country honoring and fulfilling an agreement they have with another country. Just like the Russians who of course honor and fulfill all the agreements they've made in the past with other countries, like agreeing to the Ukraine's sovereignty and borders in return for the Ukraine giving up their nuclear arsenal and basically disarming themselves. Who would have ever thought the Russians would later use that to their advantage to later invade the Ukraine, not once, but twice now, in 2014 and again in 2022. However, I know and agree, the BS excuses about the U.S. fighting for freedom and democracy in other parts of the world is often nothing but a lot of BS. They tell the American people that when the true reasoning has more to do with business and trade, and the money involved from the natural resources and such in the countries involved. If the U.S. really was so altruistic as is often claimed, why haven't we gone over to a country like Somalia, and gotten rid of all the corrupt war lords and other gang leaders, and helped the Somali people out to get on their feet and set up their own truly free and self-governing, democratic nation? Why, because they don't have anything we really need or want, or can't more easily get elsewhere, and no big U.S. corporate investments or presence there to speak of and protect. But what exactly does any of that Gulf War crap have to do with Russia and Ukraine? Or are you going to argue that the U.S. somehow coerced Iraq into invading Kuwait, so there's the relevance?
Russia and its leaders have had over a year now to declare a ceasefire and stop this nonsense. So, tell me again how the Russians have done anything to de-escalate this war? Other than continue fighting, killing, raping, and plundering, making threat after threat, hiring and employing criminal mercenaries, and finally threatening not just Ukraine or the U.S., but literally the entire world, with a nuclear response. And then I think about how stupid and inept the Russians actually appear again, when I think back to how apparently in response to Russia's decision to cease participation in the New START nuclear arms agreement with the U.S., and possibly also in response/anticipation to Biden's visit to Kyiv and Zelensky, the Russians apparently planned a test of one of their new and most powerful ICBM nuclear weapons, and it failed to launch. Couldn't happen to a nicer country IMO! LOL
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