[the 'stache]

Originally Posted by Seven

I think if there is no War, Williams is regarded as the 2nd or third greatest behind Ruth, and Cobb, and I don't think this is talked about enough. In the four years leading up to the War, Williams average state line was the following

Hits: 187
Doubles: 38
Home Runs: 32
RBI's: 129
WAR: 8.5


Assuming he at a minimum meets those averages for the three years he plays, he adds 561 Hits, 114 Doubles, 96 Home Runs, 387 RBI's and 25.5 WAR to his career Totals. Williams Career Line now looks like this

3,215 Hits, 639 Doubles, 617 Home Runs, 2226 RBI's and a 147.3 WAR

That's just if World War Two doesn't Happen! Korea also bit a chunk out of Williams career as well. He misses the majority of two seasons due to the Korean War. Using the same method as above, compiling the average of the four seasons leading up to Korea (along with subtracting the small numbers he compiled during the limited amount of games he played, we are looking at a minimum at another 287 Hits, 62 Doubles, 50 Home runs, 217 RBI's 11.9 WAR which brings us to Teds minimum career stat line (assuming he is healthy) to

3,502 Hits 701 Doubles, 667 Home Runs 2443 RBI's and a 159.2 WAR

Truly insane. This is why I love playing the What If Game.

I'll get reamed for this, but even without the missed years' stats, I still think Ted Williams is the greatest hitter of all-time.

Here's how I see it:

1a. Teddy Ballgame
1b. The Bambino

Ruth has superior statistics, but I consider the other factors. Ruth never had to play at night. And most importantly, he never played against black players, at least, not in official games. Ruth also had vastly superior offensive talent around him. The last seven years of his prime, he had arguably one of the five greatest hitters in baseball history batting behind him. Having to pitch to Ruth because of the gorilla on deck would have helped to offset any early erosion of Ruth's skills, slight though that erosion would have been. But nobody can deny that Gehrig being behind him exponentially increased the quality of pitches he saw.

I think it is very close between them. If they were thoroughbreds at the Derby, it would be a photo finish.

My short list of the greatest hitters would look something like this:

1a. Williams
1b. Ruth
3. Cobb
4. Hornsby
5. Gehrig
6. Musial

Then, I'd start looking at guys like Tony Gwynn. Fantastic hitter, but he didn't have the power the guys on that list did. DiMaggio and Mantle would both be high on the list-DiMaggio is lowered a bit because his true peak, prior to WW II, was shortened, and Mantle's later career was tremendously hampered by injury. Mantle is still a top ten offensive performer in history with that downside of his career. But before the injuries really took their toll:

1951-1964:

.309 AVG, .429 OBP, .582 SLG, 1.011 OPS, 177 OPS+.

I'm sure I'm forgetting somebody.