What if the photo shows Evers, Chance, and someone who looks like but is not Tinker? Below is the famous Paul Thompson Tinker photo, the fella in question, and on the right an older Tinker from a photo in the HOF's collection:
Tinker comp sm.jpg
I don't think that is Tinker - lots of the facial features look different to me and they don't appear to have the same teeth.
If true, this removes all of the Tinker questions from the equation. And it seems possible that there is some symbolism going on in the photo - if Chance is handing the ball to Evers, this could well be when managerial duties were passed between the two, which would then place this most likely in a Chicago nightclub with the guy in the middle perhaps being the club owner or working for the team.
What this does not resolve is the dating of the stamp proposed by Bob. I can add to that some nice work by Jim Chapman who has a NY stamp study:
https://chapmandeadballcollection.co...tamp-primer-2/
I checked the 1924 San Francisco phonebook - there is no listing for International News Service but there is one for the International News Service, which was at 632 Mission St. - not too far away from the Call Building.
Looking around for information on the New Call Building, I found this:
https://sfpl.org/locations/main-libr...isco-news-call
Specifically, "The combined gift of the morgues from the San Francisco News and Hearst’s San Francisco Call-Bulletin was an estimated 2 million photographs. The San Francisco News-Call Bulletin Photo Morgue represents the working files created and used by the newspapers’ staff between the 1920s and September 1965."
This doesn't clear up why International Film Service would've been typed onto the back of this photo in 1924 - but a typing error is possible, something less likely had this been a stamp - but it does show a Hearst photo archive working out of the building typed on the back of the photo in the 1920s and beyond, so maybe we can't rule out 1924.
Lots of guesses, that's for sure.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobC
As mentioned in my earlier post, Frank Chance passed away in 1924, September 15 to be exact, so we know the photo was certainly no later than that. Evers had been coaching for the Chicago White Sox in 1922 and 1923, and was set to reunite with Frank Chance who was hired to come in and manage the White Sox in 1924. Except, Chance came down with a severe case of influenza, from which he also developed asthma and other health issues, which led to him returning to his the West coast home in LA and emergency surgery for his condition in April, 1924. There may have been a small window of time where Evers and Chance were together in Chicago for such a picture, after he got hired as the new Chicago manager, and before he got too ill to continue on and moved back to LA before his surgery and subsequent passing. But it doesn't help explain Tinker's presence in the photo at this time as he had moved to Florida in 1920 as the owner/manager of the Orlando Tigers of the Florida League, and also became involved in real estate down there in the early 1920's. This late 1923/early 1924 timing also doesn't make sense in that Tinker's first wife, who had a long history of poor health, ended up committing suicide on Christmas Day of 1923, supposedly as a result of a nervous breakdown. Further clouding the sense of Evers and Tinker being together in such a picture is the fact the two of them had gotten into an on-field physical fight during a game back on September 14, 1905, and as a result, the two supposedly did not talk and had nothing to do with each other off the field for the next 33 years, until they were both asked (apparently without each other's knowledge) to participate in the radio broadcast the 1938 World Series. It is also a main reason Tinker later asked to be traded to the Reds in 1913, after Evers was appointed the Cubs manager for that 1913 season, and Tinker not wanting to play for him. It obviously is not entirely true though as in 1929, Tinker signed a 10 week contract to perform in a theatrical baseball skit along with Evers, presented in various cities across the country.
The LOTG description mentions the picture had markings on the back of it indicating it was issued by International Film Service (IFS). IFS was owned by William Randolph Hearst and formed back in 1915, and was created to translate top comic strip properties Hearst owned into "living comic strips" to be added to the tail end of newsreels then being produced by another Hearst owned/formed entity, International Picture Service. Because of Hearst's pro-German leanings, his business suffered during WW1, and he formally shut down and laid of everyone at IFS on July 6, 1918. Hearst apparently licensed the animation work to John C. Terry and his studio, but they shut down about a year later as well. So Hearst this time licensed the IFS animation work to a competing studio, Bray Productions, under a two year contract from 1919 to 1921 to produce IFS cartoons. At the end of the contract the licensing deal broke off, and the final few IFS cartoons were released in early 1921. How a picture of Tinker, Evers, and Chance fits in with a company producing comic trailers for newsreels is beyond me. But at least it appears to set the spectrum for when this photo was taken/issued as no earlier than 1915, and probably no later than early 1921.
Sorry, not much more help beyond that it was likely taken sometime between 1915 through early 1921, and not necessarily at a Chicago location. After they started leaving the Cubs in 1913, these three were in different cities and parts of the country during the time this photo was taken. It is possible this was from a random, chance meeting of the three old teammates. And given that I believe International Film Service was based out of New York city, I could see the picture happening in some New York restaurant/club where they happened to be together again for some chance or obscure reason or cirumstance. Best I can do, sorry.
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