Quote:
Originally Posted by frankbmd
A "hold" is merely an incomplete save that is terminated by the manager before the end of the game. Any pitcher who is pitching for the winning team, but does not finish the game or lose the lead is awarded a hold. Any pitcher who loses the lead and does not finish the game does not receive a hold. He has earned a blown hold (in theory) in much the same way that a blown save is awarded.
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It's true that a hold is an incomplete save. But a pitcher who loses the lead and does not finish the game not only doesn't receive a hold he receives a blown save (according to current rules). The reason is that there is theoretically no way to know if the pitcher who came in for the hold would have continued to pitch until the end of the game (even though we all "know" he was just in for that inning). If he was in line for a save if he finished the game, and he blew the lead, he gets a blown save.
For example, this happened in yesterday's Nats-Reds game. Machado came in in the 7th with a one run lead and gave up a run, so he gets a blown save. This despite the fact that Machdao has 11 holds and no saves and was clearly not going to pitch the 7th, 8th, and 9th to earn the save. So it was a "blown hold" in the sense that we all "know" he was just there for the hold...except we really don't know...maybe he was going to be stretched out in that game...maybe the closer would have gotten injured warming up...maybe the game would have been called after 7 innings...maybe the Nats would have scored ten runs in the 8th and Martinez would have decided not to use other pitchers with such a big lead.
Anyway, that's how it works now...maybe the rules will change in the future.
Quote:
Originally Posted by frankbmd
The interesting artificial distinction is that any pitcher who is awarded a hold, could in fact finish the game and earn a save. So any pitcher entering the game in the late innings could be a "holder" or a "saver". To award a hold the official scorer has to be clairvoyant and agree with the manager that the "holder" when he entered the game had no intention of finishing the game and earning a save.
Maybe we should call a holder, a save saver instead. Put that in your pipe and blow it.
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If a pitcher who was in for a hold finishes the game with his team not having given up the lead, he gets a save not a hold. This takes away any need for clairvoyance because it is based on what happened in the game not what the manager's intention was.
Otherwise I agree with everything Frank says and am not looking to get in any arguments with him
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frankbmd
...so I guess a blown hold is merely a blown save in disguise.
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Oh wait...I do agree with Frank! Except for the "in disguise" part.