Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth
Clemens, in his last four seasons in Boston when he should have been in his absolute prime (age 30-33), went 40-39 with a god awful ERA. This wasn't just a guy who had an off year. He had completely lost his dominance. I don't think you will find many Red Sox fans who believe his remarkable turnaround from that point is due to anything except PEDs.
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I think the argument would be that he had 3 Cy Youngs, a 2nd and 3rd and a MVP Award before he started doping in Toronto. Even though he only had 192 wins, he had an ERA+ of 144 and a WAR of 81. That is much better than Bonds who only had 2 MVPs, 176 HRs and a WAR of 50 prior to doping in SF.