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View Poll Results: Who is the greatest living player today? | |||
Ronald Acuna Jr | 1 | 0.26% | |
Johnny Bench | 16 | 4.19% | |
Mookie Betts | 0 | 0% | |
Barry Bonds | 105 | 27.49% | |
Steve Carlton | 0 | 0% | |
Roger Clemens | 2 | 0.52% | |
Ken Griifey Jr | 33 | 8.64% | |
Rickey Henderson | 25 | 6.54% | |
Randy Johnson | 2 | 0.52% | |
Sandy Koufax | 52 | 13.61% | |
Greg Maddux | 6 | 1.57% | |
Pedro Martinez | 5 | 1.31% | |
Shohei Ohtani | 16 | 4.19% | |
Albert Pujols | 16 | 4.19% | |
Cal Ripken Jr | 5 | 1.31% | |
Alex Rodriguez | 0 | 0% | |
Pete Rose | 36 | 9.42% | |
Nolan Ryan | 28 | 7.33% | |
Mike Schmidt | 16 | 4.19% | |
Ichiro Suzuki | 6 | 1.57% | |
Mike Trout | 1 | 0.26% | |
Other | 11 | 2.88% | |
Voters: 382. You may not vote on this poll |
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#251
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I totally get it as well. Kind of a shame because he really has been great in the regular season. I think if he had just been normal good but not great (say like Verlander 17-12 3.58) it would not be held against him that much.
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#252
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Made worse IMO by the fact that Roberts never knew when to pull him.
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#253
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It is amazing to me that Pete Rose has the 3 most number of votes. He was a versatile fielder, but not a particularly good one. And he was a one-dimensional hitter. Let's not forget that in addition to betting on baseball, he was also corking his bat at the end of his career, as he tried to pass Cobb on the all-time hits list. |
#254
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I think there's an easy explanation for Rose's stature -- he broke one of baseball's most sacred records that was long considered untouchable.
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My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#255
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He did break the record but if you're going to pick a player in the same vein as Rose, I think Wade Boggs was infinitely better.
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#256
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I was not a fan. Purely anecdotal, but it seemed he never got a hit in a meaningful situation. Bases empty up or down five runs, he was awesome lol.
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My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#257
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Are you talking about Arod? Because that is what I remember about him. I believe Boggs batted around .360 with runners in scoring position.
Last edited by bnorth; Yesterday at 12:31 PM. |
#258
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Yes, his overtaking Cobb (while corking his bat) is the explanation. It is not a good one.
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#259
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He has an OPS of .806 or higher in every "clutch" category on baseball reference.
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#260
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I just don't see a very good player in Pete Rose's stats. He's essentially an Ichiro clone. Their numbers from ages 27 to 45 are strikingly similar. Only 6 people chose Ichiro though and in terms of Ichiro's career, only he and Pete Rose would have accumulated 3,000 hits from age 27 on.
I guess the record explains the disparity, but Ichiro was essentially the same player. |
#261
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I haven't been able to find a career leaderboard anywhere. |
#262
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Agreed. Similarly, Koufax should be elevated due to his fantastic postseason stats: 7 World Series starts, 4 complete games, 2 shutouts, 0.95 ERA, .825 WHIP.
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#263
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I appreciate the anecdotes from superstars talking about how hard Koufax was to hit. But Aaron is just being modest, what with his career .362 average and 1.077 OPS against Sandy. Anecdotes are great but the numbers are the numbers. Last edited by Tabe; Yesterday at 01:30 PM. |
#264
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double post
Last edited by jayshum; Yesterday at 01:38 PM. |
#265
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#266
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1. Freddie Lindstrom, Giants, 1930 --- .480 (59 for 123) 2. George Brett, Royals, 1980 --- .469 Jay, check RETROSHEET, which is either part of SABR or Baseball-Reference.com Hope this helps, friend. --- Brian Powell Last edited by brian1961; Yesterday at 01:42 PM. |
#267
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It's impossible to ignore a player like Ichiro's peak, but when you look at his entire career and compare his final stats to other HOFers, I do think you're looking at a low-tier HOFer and I would say the same is true of Rose. Ichiro: 757 career OPS with an OPS+ of 107 Rose: 784 OPS with an OPS+ of 118 All that to say I'm a big Ichiro fan and I loved watching him play. I just don't think he has a case for greatest living player and I don't think there's all that much separating him from Rose, so I have a hard time seeing Rose in the conversation. I think Wade Boggs was better than both of them and is probably the greatest living hitter from a batting title / average perspective. I think it was always Gwynn then Boggs as long as Gwynn was still alive. Last edited by packs; Yesterday at 01:55 PM. |
#268
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Politics aside Barry Bonds for me. Sandy for pitchers
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#269
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I swear I never saw him get a clutch hit and I saw a lot of him. Memory may be distorted by my dislike of his attitude and obsession with his own stats.
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My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#270
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I think you also have to include Rod Carew in the conversation when you're talking about batting title and average for greatest living hitter. I agree that I wouldn't include him, Rose, Boggs or Ichiro as my pick for greatest living player, though. |
#271
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#272
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#273
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People said the same thing in Philly about Bobby Abreu, but somehow he hit .311 in his career with RISP so some of that had to happen with the Phillies.
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#274
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But I think Ichiro was more well-balanced player. He stole more than twice as many bases and was a better fielder. Ichiro won 10 Gold Gloves. Rose won just 2 Gold Gloves. Last edited by cgjackson222; Yesterday at 04:56 PM. |
#275
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I’m not a big Pete Rose fan but he was great .
4256 hits is a big number , He hit .321 in 301 postseason at bats, Played in six World Series and won three of them , MVP in ‘75 series - was part of the big red machine and he had some kind of hitting streak |
#276
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#277
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It’s hard to avoid Rose’s record when talking about him and it’s hard to exclude Cobb from thought by extension. Cobb was just so much better than Rose that it’s hard to see them always paired up.
I would even suggest that it’s because Rose broke Cobb’s record and Cobb’s name carries the weight it deserves to that Rose even enters the conversation. But Cobb was a mile ahead of Rose in every other way. If the hit record was held by someone other than Cobb I think Rose loses his shine. Which is to say I don’t think it’s the hit king status that vaults Rose, but the fact that it was Cobb that he topped. Last edited by packs; Yesterday at 02:47 PM. |
#278
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Thanks for finding that. I had just rewatched Boggs 3000th hit game a few days ago and would have sworn I seen that stat when he was up to bat. I just rewatched his at bats and Wade hit .361 lifetime with the bases loaded according to his second at bat stats they displayed.
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#279
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#280
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Barry Bonds juicing himself to the gills with PEDS is not bad politics---it's called cheating. It's called desecrating the integrity of the game's record book. Keep the bum out of the Baseball Hall of Fame. Always keep him in the elite hall of shame.
Yes, Barry had a definite HOF career going, just like Joe Jackson. Jackson's misdeeds came in a controversial World Series; how much Joe threw his part of the Series is still argued about back and forth. Bonds's misdeeds came after McGwire and Sosa wowed everybody in 1998, and Barry decided he was going to get some of that stuff, and make everybody forget the former record-holders. What a lousy mess. Furthermore, the juicers influenced young players to use PEDS. I've read of some tragic stories.... --- Brian Powell Last edited by brian1961; Yesterday at 04:41 PM. |
#281
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Jackson was banned for participating to some degree in throwing a World Series - he was great, but he's out of the discussion. Great stats, all for nothing.
Rose was banned for gambling. He knew clearly what he was doing, and was banned. Great stats, all for nothing. Bonds, Sosa, McGwire, et al, all blatantly thumbed their collective noses at the no PEDs rules. They knew what they were doing. They aren't banned, but they aren't going into the HoF anytime soon. Great stats, meaningless, all for nothing. Very wealthy, but that's as far as it goes. Collectors go all gaga over certain cards, and spout meaningless, subjective or otherwise arguments about their stats and greatness. In the end, it means absolutely nothing.
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#282
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Succinctly well-said, James Ingram. -- Brian Powell
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#283
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As for the anecdotes, that's why I said "this side of Aaron" that means - not including Aaron.
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#284
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Or I just like every excuse I can get to show a childhood obsession card. As for pitchers, I go with either Clemens or Johnson.
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Read my blog; it will make all your dreams come true. https://adamstevenwarshaw.substack.com/ Or not... Last edited by Exhibitman; Yesterday at 05:33 PM. |
#285
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I feel like I’m in the twilight zone when I see Bonds name mentioned with Ruth-Mays-Aaron. Do people really not understand that Bonds cheated and his numbers are inflated due to PED use? UGH!
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#286
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Yes but many people go out of their way to shrug it off.
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#287
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Man that’s a good card
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#288
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A reading of the posts will show that everyone appears to be well aware that Bonds used steroids from 1999 or 2000 through sometime between 2003 and 2007. It is not complete ignorance the issue even exists that is the debate.
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