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#1
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Pre-War Autograph Opinion
Posted By: Anonymous
I have recently been offered cut signatures of Babe Ruth, Walter Johnson, and Honus Wagner. Before purchasing the group I thought I would ask the opinions of the experts on this forum. Thanks. |
#2
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Pre-War Autograph Opinion
Posted By: Kyle
I'm not expert, but they sure do look a lot like each other. You can pay PSA/DNA for a quick opinion, I think its $5, $10 or $15... but that by no means means they're real. |
#3
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Pre-War Autograph Opinion
Posted By: Jon Canfield
I don't think the Ruth and wagner look even close. The Johnson is the closest to his actual signature but still looks really bad to me. Hopefully Jodi or Richard will chime in as they are the experts. |
#4
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Pre-War Autograph Opinion
Posted By: Dan Bretta
They all look fake to me. All of them look like they were written slowly without flow, and probably by the same person. |
#5
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Pre-War Autograph Opinion
Posted By: Steve Murray
Spend money to get them authenticated...NOT!!! |
#6
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Pre-War Autograph Opinion
Posted By: Bobby Binder
Here are some real ones to compare.. |
#7
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Pre-War Autograph Opinion
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#8
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Pre-War Autograph Opinion
Posted By: Sean Coe
The sizing of the letters in the Ruth and the Wagner are not correct. The writing in Walter appears slow like a bad trace job. |
#9
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Pre-War Autograph Opinion
Posted By: Mark
Interesting because these are from eBay and have been encapsulated by Spence: |
#10
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Pre-War Autograph Opinion
Posted By: Jon Canfield
I have to say I'm amazed these are deemed authentic by Spence. I think they are three of the worst I've seen. |
#11
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Pre-War Autograph Opinion
Posted By: DJ
...or someone who is anti-JSA wants to gather opinions (agenda?) to show how this authenticating company doesn't know what the are doing? |
#12
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Pre-War Autograph Opinion
Posted By: Richard Simon
They are awful in my opinion. |
#13
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Pre-War Autograph Opinion
Posted By: leon
I think it would be prudent to make sure that JSA in fact deemed these authentic before we lynch anyone.....I have almost no idea about autographs but even to a novice that Ruth signature looks really bad..... |
#14
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Pre-War Autograph Opinion
Posted By: Matt
corrected ebay links. |
#15
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Pre-War Autograph Opinion
Posted By: Jon Canfield
Leon and others - yes you can copy and paste the links individually and all have been encapsulated by Beckett/JSA. |
#16
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Pre-War Autograph Opinion
Posted By: DR
Item number: 130177026937 |
#17
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Pre-War Autograph Opinion
Posted By: Matt
ROFL |
#18
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Pre-War Autograph Opinion
Posted By: leon
Ok....so now the question is, does JSA really think that Ruth auto is legit, on 2nd review? I know nothing and they (supposedly.. we hope) know a ton.....but that Ruth auto is not like any that I have seen before. Even as only card guys we get exposed to a lot of nice looking Ruth autos.....Can't say I have ever seen a "B" formed that way on other legitimate pieces.....Maybe I just don't know... ?? |
#19
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Pre-War Autograph Opinion
Posted By: Dave F
I've always wondered how you can verify any signature for sure. I know for a fact nobody would ever be able to correctly verify mine....everytime I sign something it looks a bit different. Maybe I'm the only one like that...but just too much guessing and hoping goes into autographs for me to ever come off the hip with a bunch of money for one. |
#20
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Pre-War Autograph Opinion
Posted By: micah
edited due to anonymity.....You didn't listen....nothing personal....(leon) |
#21
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Pre-War Autograph Opinion
Posted By: leon
Lets all be careful about anonymity in this thread. Say what you want to but you need to put your name by it or I need to know you. The reason I say "I" need to know you is that, being moderator, if someone comes to me about something that is said on the board I need to know who you are...this is all per the forum rules and certainly nothing personal. You are legally liable for what you say on the board...best regards |
#22
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Pre-War Autograph Opinion
Posted By: Dan Bretta
This reminds me of the ebayer who was selling "vintage" photos a few years back and if you looked at his buying activity the only thing he bought on ebay was vintage photo paper. |
#23
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Pre-War Autograph Opinion
Posted By: Rhys
One of the easiest ways to tell whether a Ruth is real or not (one of the giveaways) is how he crossed his "t". He always used a really hard vertical stroke and pressed the pen at the end leaving a small dot of ink. The way he crossed his "t" in that signature is not straight and there is no spot at the end. You can have a fake Ruth with this characterisitc, but you basically cant have a real one without it. That signature is a joke, as is the Johnson. I dont have as much experience with Wagner and that one is closer to the real deal but still looks bad. Pretty pathetic. |
#24
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Pre-War Autograph Opinion
Posted By: DJ
I kind of figured there was a motive here. |
#25
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Pre-War Autograph Opinion
Posted By: leon
Not sure I understand the motive question? If these are as bad as they look to be, it's not the sellers fault unless he is the authenticator too? |
#26
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Pre-War Autograph Opinion
Posted By: Dan Bretta
Why is the seller buying old ink? That's the question I want answered. |
#27
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Pre-War Autograph Opinion
Posted By: Frank Wakefield
Hmmm... |
#28
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Pre-War Autograph Opinion
Posted By: Dan Bretta
Certainly circumstantial evidence, but add that to the crappy autographs and I wouldn't bid on anything this guy is selling. I also wouldn't buy an "antique" photo from a guy buying up old stock velox paper, but that's just me. I'm funny that way. |
#29
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Pre-War Autograph Opinion
Posted By: Brett
Those autographs look fake... they are really bad. |
#30
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Pre-War Autograph Opinion
Posted By: Mike
After reading the whole T206 Walter Johnson thread, I can't ever imagine myself purchasing an autograph. In my unprofessional opinion, I believe many if not most are fakes. Fake cards are normally easy to spot (usually). A good fake autograph isn't even for the most skilled experts. |
#31
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Pre-War Autograph Opinion
Posted By: Jeff Prillaman
When I click on this sellers feedback and try and look at older auctions all the picture links come up blank. I know I try and keep scans in my listings for about 2 months or so. |
#32
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Pre-War Autograph Opinion
Posted By: barrysloate
I'm not an autograph guy, but I knew those were bad in about two seconds. |
#33
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Pre-War Autograph Opinion
Posted By: Mark Steinberg
I "watched" a previous auction of theirs, in which a ball autographed by Ruth, Maranville, and the Dean Brothers was being offered by them on Ebay. |
#34
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Pre-War Autograph Opinion
Posted By: T206Collector
...but you do have to be careful about provenance, etc. And, where there is risk, you had better have a certification from a reliable source. |
#35
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Pre-War Autograph Opinion
Posted By: Russ Bright
Babe Ruth autographs are plentiful - you should be able to get a good grasp of what they look like after seeing a few cut cards and what not and though a little bit rarer even on a BAD day honus's autograph would look better than that - here's mine |
#36
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Pre-War Autograph Opinion
Posted By: Mark Steinberg
I found a picture of the pre-enhanced original Ruth Signature. This signature now appears nearly perfect, with no scuff. I wish I had an image of the newly altered ball that was sold by this seller on ebay. |
#37
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Pre-War Autograph Opinion
Posted By: Paul S
My impression was exactly like Kyle's, before I even saw his post. |
#38
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Pre-War Autograph Opinion
Posted By: micah
edited due to anonymity......I asked further up the thread not to be anonymous....nothing pesonal....(leon- moderator) |
#39
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Pre-War Autograph Opinion
Posted By: T206Collector
...I am no authenticator, but I do understand that more goes into it than what is being discussed and relied upon in this thread. |
#40
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Pre-War Autograph Opinion
Posted By: Richard Simon
I have just sent copies of these autographs to four of the most knowledgable people I know in the hobby. |
#41
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Pre-War Autograph Opinion
Posted By: leon
Thanks....should be interesting. At least with cards, if you are experienced, you can have a damn good opinion if something is real or not. regards |
#42
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Pre-War Autograph Opinion
Posted By: Richard Simon
I sent these scans out to four of the most knowledgable people I know in the hobby. |
#43
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Pre-War Autograph Opinion
Posted By: Richard S. Simon
I just sent the scans out to one more well respected autograph dealer, Ron Gordon. He also thinks they are not authentic. |
#44
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Pre-War Autograph Opinion
Posted By: Dan Bretta
I would have thought they were cracked out and replaced with forgeries, but I guess if Spence is standing by them.....well that's not good. |
#45
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Pre-War Autograph Opinion
Posted By: Richard Simon
T206 collector - who at the authentication companies do you suggest the collectors talk to? |
#46
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Pre-War Autograph Opinion
Posted By: T206Collector
....readily approachable at shows around the country. Spence and staff will be in White Plains, NY. That's where I talk to them about autograph authentication. |
#47
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Pre-War Autograph Opinion
Posted By: Richard S. Simon
Who is to determine the 5 fake Ruth autographs and the 5 real Ruth autographs? |
#48
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Pre-War Autograph Opinion
Posted By: T206Collector
Real ruths to send in, then send in 10 fakes and see what percentage come back as forgeries. |
#49
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Pre-War Autograph Opinion
Posted By: Richard Simon
HBO has already done a test like this, though they did not test PSA or JSA. |
#50
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Pre-War Autograph Opinion
Posted By: micah
T206collector: Are you saying that Spence is claiming to assist the FBI personally? I find this hard to believe. |
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