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  #1  
Old 02-25-2020, 06:46 AM
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@ndrew woo.dfin
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Default Seriously WTF is this? Card doctors are acceptable now?

Just scrolling through FB and happened upon this. Makes me sick to my stomach. Be careful who you buy from and where you buy from. Since it’s FB and public info I am not removing names. I’m just disappointed anyone would use this and yet they complain about the fraud in the hobby.

Is this now acceptable? How do you feel about this?
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  #2  
Old 02-25-2020, 07:54 AM
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I don't go to FB much but cleaning a card is a relative term, as we all know.
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Last edited by Leon; 02-25-2020 at 07:54 AM.
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  #3  
Old 02-25-2020, 07:58 AM
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Cleaning these is usually buffing out finger prints because of the crazy glossy surface. Less invasive, but similar to, removing a wax stain for a 1968 Topps. If that;s all that's going on it doesn't bother me and I'm pretty much massively on the record against doctoring.
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  #4  
Old 02-25-2020, 08:03 AM
packs packs is offline
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Being called card cleaning but when it comes to foil all it probably means in practice is taking a dry erase to the card front.
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  #5  
Old 02-25-2020, 09:04 AM
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So if the card comes out with a scratch or is damaged with one then it’s okay to alter it because it’s new or a foil card? Buffing to remove defects is altering IMO. Isn’t there a big issue now with altered cards? Print defects being fixed and passed off. Same thing IMO.
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  #6  
Old 02-25-2020, 09:08 AM
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I think it's more like you find a person who doesn't know any better that's going to pay you to rub a dry erase on their card without any post-work guarantees.
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  #7  
Old 02-25-2020, 10:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by packs View Post
I think it's more like you find a person who doesn't know any better that's going to pay you to rub a dry erase on their card without any post-work guarantees.
I can see this being an issue in the future.
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  #8  
Old 02-25-2020, 10:28 AM
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I can see this being an issue in the future.
A fool and his money will always be an issue. But it doesn't sound like this guy is trimming anything. I'm fairly certain he's taking gullible people's money and not doing much to get it.
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  #9  
Old 02-25-2020, 01:17 PM
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This hobby is ridiculous.

(and i'm mostly referring to the market incentives for cleaning cards in the first place, not the service itself)
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  #10  
Old 02-25-2020, 02:31 PM
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Yep, it used to be a hobby that honored and revered history and its past players.

Now it’s become a vehicle for quick flippers, profits, greed, ego and wealthy (yet clueless) collectors afflicted with severe OCD.

I bet PSA wishes they could do so some banning and censoring of that Facebook Group. It has to be somewhat embarrassing for them to be “played” like that in such public fashion.
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  #11  
Old 02-25-2020, 02:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by perezfan View Post
Yep, it used to be a hobby that honored and revered history and its past players.

Now it’s become a vehicle for quick flippers, profits, greed, ego and wealthy (yet clueless) collectors afflicted with severe OCD.

I bet PSA wishes they could do so some banning and censoring of that Facebook Group. It has to be somewhat embarrassing for them to be “played” like that in such public fashion.
Teflon PSA doesn't care whatsoever. In fact, they might have already privately message them inviting them to the next seminar on how they grade cards and what graders look for.
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  #12  
Old 02-25-2020, 02:49 PM
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Default Seriously WTF is this? Card doctors are acceptable now?

So technically - yeah, but this is nothing new. I think YouTube videos on how to clean / remove fingerprints, etc. from shiny new modern cards have been around since before the first of the PWCC revelations. I don't know, I don't collect modern, so find it pretty hard to get fired-up about more card doctoring suspicions there when we have more than enough to go around here each week with vintage cards.
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  #13  
Old 02-26-2020, 02:11 PM
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All niches have been affected it seems.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jchcollins View Post
So technically - yeah, but this is nothing new. I think YouTube videos on how to clean / remove fingerprints, etc. from shiny new modern cards have been around since before the first of the PWCC revelations. I don't know, I don't collect modern, so find it pretty hard to get fired-up about more card doctoring suspicions there when we have more than enough to go around here each week with vintage cards.
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Old 02-26-2020, 03:49 PM
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There are modern card collectors that buff out scratches from chrome cards using Meguiar's car wax. This guy is probably just using a microfiber eyeglass cloth to remove fingerprints, which can improve a grade like 1.5 points from an 8.5 to a 10.
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  #15  
Old 02-28-2020, 04:05 PM
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I don't have a problem with taking something off of a card (not the borders ) as long as a solvent isn't used, other than water. That is a big spread for taking fingerprints off.

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There are modern card collectors that buff out scratches from chrome cards using Meguiar's car wax. This guy is probably just using a microfiber eyeglass cloth to remove fingerprints, which can improve a grade like 1.5 points from an 8.5 to a 10.
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  #16  
Old 03-02-2020, 06:41 AM
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@ndrew woo.dfin
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I guess altering cards to improve grades is a legit business model. I am just mind blown this is allowed and just blatantly aired out like it’s no big deal.
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  #17  
Old 03-02-2020, 08:37 AM
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I've learned in this industry/hobby not to let anything surprise me anymore.
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  #18  
Old 03-02-2020, 08:50 AM
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Is it ironic this thread is right above a thread asking which cards can and can't be soaked???
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  #19  
Old 03-02-2020, 09:02 AM
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Sorry, I don't consider wiping off fingerprints as an alteration to the card, nor do I see it as a service that should require payment. Its more like common sense
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  #20  
Old 03-02-2020, 09:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gobucsmagic74 View Post
Sorry, I don't consider wiping off fingerprints as an alteration to the card, nor do I see it as a service that should require payment. Its more like common sense
First off I never mentioned anything about wiping off fingerprints. That would be absurd to assume that wiping off the fingerprint is alteration. The use of a wax compound to buff and enhance the surface is absolutely alteration. The services provided by some those companies even blatantly state that that is what they were doing.
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  #21  
Old 03-02-2020, 09:49 AM
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Several people have mentioned it's essentially a "fingerprint removal" service. That's what I'm referring to
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  #22  
Old 03-02-2020, 11:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T205 GB View Post
First off I never mentioned anything about wiping off fingerprints. That would be absurd to assume that wiping off the fingerprint is alteration. The use of a wax compound to buff and enhance the surface is absolutely alteration. The services provided by some those companies even blatantly state that that is what they were doing.
I'm pretty sure in terms of modern foil buffing off fingerprints probably makes up 98% of services rendered. This just seems like an easy way to make a buck without really doing anything.
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  #23  
Old 03-05-2020, 01:53 PM
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If that is the case then sign me up!

Quote:
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I'm pretty sure in terms of modern foil buffing off fingerprints probably makes up 98% of services rendered. This just seems like an easy way to make a buck without really doing anything.
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