Goldin Vault

[brianclat11]

Goldin has recently announced plans for a vault that would serve to store, insure, and provide electronic pictures/accounting for anything placed there. I'm very curios to hear everyone's thoughts on this practice for Goldin, considering recent troubles at PWCC. Goldin is offering this service free over the next few months on items over 1k. They also store the items bought on their auction without sales tax if going directly to the vault.

What does everyone think about potentially using this service? I personally like to have items at my house to hold and view whenever I want, but that means insurance and worrying about security.

[Schlesinj]

Pretty good conversation here.

https://www.net54baseball.com/showth...t=Goldin+vault

[brianclat11]

Originally Posted by Schlesinj

Pretty good conversation here.

https://www.net54baseball.com/showth...t=Goldin+vault

Thanks! I don't want to rehash something that has been thoroughly discussed.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by brianclat11

Thanks! I don't want to rehash something that has been thoroughly discussed.

Several of us got into a lot of detail in that earlier thread. Let me emphasize the sales tax part of those discussions deal with STATE sales and use tax laws, which vary from state to state. So before making any final decisions you should possibly check with a qualified tax professional and at least review/research the sales and use tax laws for the respective state(s) you are in.

Also, since that earlier thread, I learned from watching one of those youtube videos that PWCC put out in response to getting booted by Ebay that they did in fact set up their "vault" as an entirely separate company from their auction/sales business, which helps to keep "vault" held items free from potential asset seizure should their main auction/sales business ever go under. Would still want to fully review any and all documents and agreements related to putting items in their "vault" to insure proper handling and segragation from the main company then. I do not know if Goldin is handling their "vault" this way or not. If someone knows they have it set up as a separate legal entity apart from their main AH/sales business, please chime in.

Also, in regards to the question of possibly removing an item from the "vault" and being able to then take possession of it back in the state you live in without having to end up having to pay sales tax to your home state, I had in a different thread responded that I found a specific rule under CA sales and use tax law on this point. Under this rule, if you bought and kept/used a vehicle outside of CA for 12 months or more before then bringing it into CA for registration and use, there would be no sales or use tax due CA on the original purchase price of the vehicle. Bring it into CA before having owned it at least 12 months and you owe use tax to CA on the original purchase price of the vehicle, less any sales tax you paid to any other state you originally bought the vehicle in. This underscores the concept that taking something out of a sales tax-free "vault" back to a state with a sales tax doesn't automatically mean you now owe sales/use tax on the items removed. The time left in the vault could allow for the exemption of sales/use tax being due. Again, these laws vary by state, and they don't necessarily have an exact time threshhold spelled out in their laws like this one very specific CA rule. So you should possible seek professional help and research the laws for the specific state you are in to see what may be applicable for your specific situation.

I have also since realized there may be another tax advantage to having a "vault" in a sales tax free state aside from just the sales tax. If someone is buying and mostly flipping cards to make money, there can be a fine line as to whether they are considered a dealer or an investor/collector. The biggest difference there is that the max individual federal income rate on net income from card sales is treated as capital gains, subject to a top tax rate currently of 28%. A dealer has net income from card sales treated as ordinary income, subject to a current top federal tax rate of 37%. Plus, that ordinary net income will also be subject to federal unemployment tax (social security and Medicare), which can be up to an additional 15.3% tax on top of any income tax due on the net gains from cards sold. The 12.4% social security portion of the federal self-employment tax is currently capped at $142,800 of taxable income for 2021. The remaining 2.9% of Medicare tax has no taxable income limit though. There are also the additional investment and earned income taxes that kick in at certain income levels, commonly reffered to as Obamacare taxes, which could impact this well.

Anyway, if a person looking to simply flip cards wanted to, they could also sign up as a reseller and apply for a vendor's license in their state, and thus be able to issue a reseller's sales tax exemption certificate to anyone they are buying from, and thus avoid paying sales tax on their purchases. However, by filing as a vendor and using the exemption certificate, they have basically declared themselves as a dealer and are going to be subject to the potentially higher federal income tax rates, as well as also now being subject to federal self-employment taxes. By utilizing a "vault" in a sales tax free state instead, they don't have to declare themselves a dealer by filing a reseller's exemption certificate, and they can have the company handling the vault take care of all their activity for them, further reinforcing that they are not a dealer and only an investor/collector. So there can be an income tax component to this also.

[Yoda]

Goldin at the moment is like the Nazi blitzkrieg.

[brianclat11]

This is obviously more complicated than I thought and goes deep into tax laws. I have reached out to Goldin with several questions and have not heard back from them as yet. After reading the info in this discussion and looking back at the previous thread, I am inclined to keep my prized collection at home and pay for good insurance.

Thanks all!

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by Yoda

Goldin at the moment is like the Nazi blitzkrieg.

What an awful comparison.

[mrreality68]

Regardless of whose vault it is
After researching it I have determined it is not right for me.

It may work for others.

But I will not be putting anything into any companies “Vault”

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by mechanicalman

What an awful comparison.

Yeah, seems a little much. Just a little.

[maniac_73]

Originally Posted by Yoda

Goldin at the moment is like the Nazi blitzkrieg.

Wtf?!

[oldjudge]

I know what John was trying to say, but the “Nazi” adjective was unnecessary. The Nazi’s didn’t invent the blitzkrieg; it was first used during WW I.

[Yoda]

I agree; it was thoughtless. My bad.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by brianclat11

This is obviously more complicated than I thought and goes deep into tax laws. I have reached out to Goldin with several questions and have not heard back from them as yet. After reading the info in this discussion and looking back at the previous thread, I am inclined to keep my prized collection at home and pay for good insurance.

Thanks all!

Absolutely necessary for everyone to do their own research, subject to their own unique set of facts and circumstnces, to be better able to make an informed decision!

[zoomfest]

I sent a handful of purchased cards to the Vault and they've been sitting in their offices for almost two weeks. Not processed yet and they confirmed that they have a package (yet there are two) that they haven't opened. They are clearly overwhelved as the beneficiary of the PWCC scandal, but don’t seem to be equipped to handle the volume.