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  #1  
Old 07-31-2023, 07:46 AM
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Default What's the toughest back in the hobby?

I was thinking about how impossible it is to find Three Bagger and Home Run backs in W502 and it got me wondering what the toughest card back variation is in the hobby.

I think the last time we passed the hat the results were just a few Three Baggers and a few Home Runs. These were redeemable for new baseballs so I think they mostly all got turned in (on top of probably being short printed to begin with). Even the Two Baggers are tough with their sponge baseball redemption.

So what am I missing? How many back variations are there with single-digit examples known to exist?

(if I'm off on any aspect of this please correct me, thanks)

Arthur
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  #2  
Old 07-31-2023, 07:51 AM
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Are you talking about only W502s?
If not, I will go with D355.....I have seen either 1 or 2 (I think it was the same one)
.
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  #3  
Old 07-31-2023, 08:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leon View Post
Are you talking about only W502s?
If not, I will go with D355.....I have seen either 1 or 2 (I think it was the same one)
.
Are you talking about the entire card, in general? I know there are cards that are unique. What I'd like to know is out of a set that has multiple different backs that can be found on all the cards in the set, which backs are the toughest?

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  #4  
Old 07-31-2023, 09:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leon View Post
Are you talking about only W502s?
If not, I will go with D355.....I have seen either 1 or 2 (I think it was the same one)
.
Leon, was that the one missing from your original type collection?
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  #5  
Old 07-31-2023, 04:09 PM
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Helmar backed S74-1 white version silks.
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  #6  
Old 07-31-2023, 04:49 PM
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T208 Cullivan’s Fireside

T216 Mino/Virginia Extra

E107 with Breisch-Williams overprint

D303 Mother’s Bread


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  #7  
Old 07-31-2023, 04:55 PM
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Wool's American Maid Bread.

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  #8  
Old 07-31-2023, 05:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leon View Post
Are you talking about only W502s?
If not, I will go with D355.....I have seen either 1 or 2 (I think it was the same one)
.
Leon, I think you forgot about the group of d355s posted on the PSA board about a decade ago. I think there were 3 or 4 different including a Cobb.
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  #9  
Old 07-31-2023, 05:26 PM
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A back that can be found on every card in a set can't of course have a single digit population unless there are a single digit number of cards in the set, so how about 1869 Peck & Snyder with the advertising text back? I believe the total population is in the low single digits.
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  #10  
Old 07-31-2023, 05:40 PM
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1922 W573 Cafe Du Monde is a tough one too.
-
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  #11  
Old 07-31-2023, 05:56 PM
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W515 Fleer Back.
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  #12  
Old 07-31-2023, 06:27 PM
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Default T206 Ty Cobb back

Here is my choice: T206 Ty Cobb back!

Patrick

Last edited by Vintagecatcher; 07-31-2023 at 06:27 PM.
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  #13  
Old 08-02-2023, 05:21 PM
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T205 Hindu backs or T207 Napoleon backs
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  #14  
Old 08-03-2023, 05:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fisherboy7 View Post
T208 Cullivan’s Fireside

T216 Mino/Virginia Extra

E107 with Breisch-Williams overprint

D303 Mother’s Bread


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
All of the E107 Breisch-Williams overprints are one of a kind, no player is know with two OP's. I believe all of the stamps were applied at the same time by the same person.

Last edited by sb1; 08-03-2023 at 05:22 AM.
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  #15  
Old 08-03-2023, 05:54 AM
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T207 Red Cross - of the 14 or so players yet found with the back, all but one are at present unique. The other has two.
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  #16  
Old 08-03-2023, 07:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toppcat View Post
Leon, was that the one missing from your original type collection?
Yes.

And DJ, now that you mention it, I remember those D355s. Still very rare at under 5 known...


These are both low pops...

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  #17  
Old 08-03-2023, 07:52 AM
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. (sorry, posted in wrong thread)

Years ago, I was doing a front/back census on the W502 set and it's amazing how many intricacies there are to it. The "Three Bagger" and "Home Run" backs are deceptively rare. Over the course of a few years I polled Net54 and watched auctions and eBay to try and catalog all the different combinations there were, just to get a feel for relative scarcity.

Ultimately, I think Arthur has a good point about those two backs. We can talk about things like 1921 Herpolsheimer and other E121-related backs, the toughest T206 backs or 19th Century type cards, but when it came to those three bagger and home run backs, there were literally only a handful of examples with either back, after years of watching. About 50% of the W502s out there have blank backs, and a substantial number of the rest were single and double backs, printed with different orientations and messages. But there were only a handful of cards with the triple and home run backs. I'm not talking about a handful of cards with that possible front/back combination, I'm talking about a handful of CARDS, in the entire universe of cards I swept up in my census.

Sadly the whole census got wiped in a hard drive crash, but if I recall, there were single digits of cards with either back. That's pretty tough, relatively speaking.

-Al
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  #18  
Old 08-03-2023, 08:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darwinbulldog View Post
A back that can be found on every card in a set can't of course have a single digit population unless there are a single digit number of cards in the set, so how about 1869 Peck & Snyder with the advertising text back? I believe the total population is in the low single digits.
The Three Bagger and Home Run backs were redeemable for baseballs so while I'm sure there was a diverse population of those backs at the time of printing the vast majority got turned in for a baseball. There's a reason that virtually all of the 3B and HR backs that have been found are Gehrig and Ruth -- they're most likely to have been kept despite the prize involved. Finding a "common" with one of those backs is like trying to get a wet noodle up a bobcat's ass in a telephone booth.

Arthur
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  #19  
Old 08-03-2023, 08:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HasselhoffsCheeseburger View Post
The Three Bagger and Home Run backs were redeemable for baseballs so while I'm sure there was a diverse population of those backs at the time of printing the vast majority got turned in for a baseball. There's a reason that virtually all of the 3B and HR backs that have been found are Gehrig and Ruth -- they're most likely to have been kept despite the prize involved. Finding a "common" with one of those backs is like trying to get a wet noodle up a bobcat's ass in a telephone booth.

Arthur
Do you believe that all W502s were printed with the Three Bager and Home Run backs?
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  #20  
Old 08-03-2023, 09:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darwinbulldog View Post
Do you believe that all W502s were printed with the Three Bager and Home Run backs?
I have a Bob O'Farrell with a Home Run back so I have no reason to believe that all of the cards in the set weren't printed with all of the back variations.

Arthur
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  #21  
Old 08-03-2023, 02:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Al C.risafulli View Post
. (sorry, posted in wrong thread)

Years ago, I was doing a front/back census on the W502 set and it's amazing how many intricacies there are to it. The "Three Bagger" and "Home Run" backs are deceptively rare. Over the course of a few years I polled Net54 and watched auctions and eBay to try and catalog all the different combinations there were, just to get a feel for relative scarcity.

Ultimately, I think Arthur has a good point about those two backs. We can talk about things like 1921 Herpolsheimer and other E121-related backs, the toughest T206 backs or 19th Century type cards, but when it came to those three bagger and home run backs, there were literally only a handful of examples with either back, after years of watching. About 50% of the W502s out there have blank backs, and a substantial number of the rest were single and double backs, printed with different orientations and messages. But there were only a handful of cards with the triple and home run backs. I'm not talking about a handful of cards with that possible front/back combination, I'm talking about a handful of CARDS, in the entire universe of cards I swept up in my census.

Sadly the whole census got wiped in a hard drive crash, but if I recall, there were single digits of cards with either back. That's pretty tough, relatively speaking.

-Al

Al,
I went through my set, which is an amalgamation of York caramels, Harrington ice cream and W502s, and found only three extra base hit backs. One home run (Rousch), one three bagger (Sam Jones) and one two bagger (Waite Hoyt). The home run and two bagger state that they are exchangable for baseballs, the three bagger says nothing.
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  #22  
Old 08-04-2023, 07:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spec View Post
Al,
I went through my set, which is an amalgamation of York caramels, Harrington ice cream and W502s, and found only three extra base hit backs. One home run (Rousch), one three bagger (Sam Jones) and one two bagger (Waite Hoyt). The home run and two bagger state that they are exchangable for baseballs, the three bagger says nothing.
The Two Baggers are deceptively difficult, as well. Seems like everything that could be redeemed got redeemed, starting with the Two Baggers.

Arthur
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  #23  
Old 08-04-2023, 11:12 AM
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Probably Scott Brockelman's
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  #24  
Old 08-04-2023, 01:58 PM
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My research from years ago, when I was collecting W502's, has these back options:

Blank Back

ONE BAGGER (faces right)

ONE BAGGER Hold What You Got (faces right)

ONE BAGGER Hold What You Got (faces left)

TWO BAGGER (faces right)***

TWO BAGGER (faces left)

2 TWO BAGGER Return to Storekeeper and Exchange for A Base Ball (faces right)

2 TWO BAGGER Return to Storekeeper and Exchange for A Base Ball (faces left)

THREE BAGGER (faces right)

THREE BAGGER (faces left)

3 THREE BAGGER Return to Storekeeper and Exchange for A Base Ball (faces right)***

3 THREE BAGGER Return to Storekeeper and Exchange for A Sponge Base Ball (faces left)

HOME RUN***

HOME RUN Return to Storekeeper and Exchange for A Base Ball (faces right)

Faces right = Reads Bottom to Top
Faces left = Reads Top to Bottom

*** = still on my want list
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  #25  
Old 08-04-2023, 02:07 PM
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Mark, here's my example of the two-bagger you need:


I owned but sold a Home Run Lazerri some time ago, but cannot seem to find a scan, sad to say.
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  #26  
Old 08-04-2023, 02:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nolemmings View Post
Mark, here's my example of the two-bagger you need:


I owned but sold a Home Run Lazerri some time ago, but cannot seem to find a scan, sad to say.
Todd

Your example faces left and reads top to bottom. I need the opposite. Thanks for trying!
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  #27  
Old 08-04-2023, 02:40 PM
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Thanks for the clarification. It might be easier to just call it top to bottom or the reverse. At least this addled brain considers my Wilson to have the type facing right.

While we're on the subject, have you seen any of the extra-base hit versions listing a number as well as the verbiage, like this one? Maybe the ones that offer a redemption prize?:
NEVER MIND-- I see a three-bagger on the BST right now with the number 3, so the answer is yes.
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Last edited by nolemmings; 08-04-2023 at 02:48 PM.
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  #28  
Old 08-04-2023, 02:59 PM
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I think the most difficult back to get in this hobby is your money back!
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  #29  
Old 08-04-2023, 10:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HasselhoffsCheeseburger View Post

…Finding a "common" with one of those backs is like trying to get a wet noodle up a bobcat's ass in a telephone booth.

Arthur
That’s a hilarious quote right there!
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  #30  
Old 08-10-2023, 09:08 PM
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Both types of Leader Theatre (Located in Washington, DC) cards are rare. Leon showed the W575-1 type earlier in this thread, and here is the W573 type:
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File Type: jpg 1922 Leader Theatre - Rice - front.jpg (188.5 KB, 266 views)
File Type: jpg 1922 Leader Theatre - Rice - back.jpg (192.3 KB, 265 views)
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Seeking very scarce/rare cards for my Sam Rice master collection, e.g., E210 York Caramel Type 2 (upgrade), 1931 W502, W504 (upgrade), W572 sepia, W573, W575-1 E. S. Rice version, 1922 Haffner's Bread, 1922 Keating Candy, 1922 Witmor Candy Type 2 (vertical back), 1926 Sports Co. of Am. with ad & blank backs. Also T216 Kotton "NGO" card of Hugh Jennings. Also 1917 Merchants Bakery & Weil Baking cards of WaJo.
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  #31  
Old 08-12-2023, 08:37 PM
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Similar to the Wool's Bread card of a boxer that Adam W. showed earlier in this thread, here are couple of rare W551 cards of baseball players with Wool's Bread backs:
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Seeking very scarce/rare cards for my Sam Rice master collection, e.g., E210 York Caramel Type 2 (upgrade), 1931 W502, W504 (upgrade), W572 sepia, W573, W575-1 E. S. Rice version, 1922 Haffner's Bread, 1922 Keating Candy, 1922 Witmor Candy Type 2 (vertical back), 1926 Sports Co. of Am. with ad & blank backs. Also T216 Kotton "NGO" card of Hugh Jennings. Also 1917 Merchants Bakery & Weil Baking cards of WaJo.
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  #32  
Old 08-13-2023, 06:10 AM
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Default My first T206 purchased in 2022

This was the the first T206 I purchased twenty years ago at St Louis and wasn't familiar with back variations. (Piedmont back)

I recently noticed this PSA quotation on my older order lists--curious was this common explanation at that time (unknown back)?--sold the card years ago, and before PSA had photos linked. Thanks!

-------------VERY GOOD-EXCELLENT 4 1909-11 T206 Unknown Back Ty Cobb Portrait-Red ------------

Last edited by Directly; 08-13-2023 at 06:11 AM.
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  #33  
Old 08-13-2023, 06:57 AM
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nice cards!
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  #34  
Old 08-13-2023, 09:57 AM
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Shown once before, but, when it comes to rarity of backs, if I didn't have it in my first collection (total humility here ), it's probably rare.

I don't really remember seeing others just like this but I am sure some are around.

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Old 08-13-2023, 08:03 PM
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Here's a couple more W575-1 types with scarce/rare ad backs:
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Seeking very scarce/rare cards for my Sam Rice master collection, e.g., E210 York Caramel Type 2 (upgrade), 1931 W502, W504 (upgrade), W572 sepia, W573, W575-1 E. S. Rice version, 1922 Haffner's Bread, 1922 Keating Candy, 1922 Witmor Candy Type 2 (vertical back), 1926 Sports Co. of Am. with ad & blank backs. Also T216 Kotton "NGO" card of Hugh Jennings. Also 1917 Merchants Bakery & Weil Baking cards of WaJo.
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  #36  
Old 08-13-2023, 08:03 PM
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Here's a couple more W575-1 types with scarce/rare ad backs:
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Seeking very scarce/rare cards for my Sam Rice master collection, e.g., E210 York Caramel Type 2 (upgrade), 1931 W502, W504 (upgrade), W572 sepia, W573, W575-1 E. S. Rice version, 1922 Haffner's Bread, 1922 Keating Candy, 1922 Witmor Candy Type 2 (vertical back), 1926 Sports Co. of Am. with ad & blank backs. Also T216 Kotton "NGO" card of Hugh Jennings. Also 1917 Merchants Bakery & Weil Baking cards of WaJo.
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  #37  
Old 08-13-2023, 08:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leon View Post
Shown once before, but, when it comes to rarity of backs, if I didn't have it in my first collection (total humility here ), it's probably rare.

I don't really remember seeing others just like this but I am sure some are around.

Mine has the same signature(?) on the back.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Scan03192023091218_001.jpg (194.3 KB, 105 views)
File Type: jpg Scan03192023091436_001-1.jpg (192.5 KB, 105 views)
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  #38  
Old 08-14-2023, 01:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darwinbulldog View Post
Mine has the same signature(?) on the back.
Dang guy had both of them Thanks for sharing.

I think there are 2-3 of these backs....mabe more will come out over time.

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