Lost CGC/JSA Order

[esd70433]

Hi all, I am dealing with my first lost grading order and would appreciate any tips or commentary to maximize my dollar recovery from CGC.

I submitted a 3-card order to CGC/JSA of these three autographed cards: 1964 Topps Roger Maris, 1961 Fleer Warren Giles and 1966 Topps Mickey Mantle.

The Maris and Giles came back as inauthentic, but I have good reason to believe both are authentic based on the seller's experience. The Mantle graded a 5 with 7 auto grade. Actual picture below (and marked as stolen on CGC's website):



I submitted each with a declared value of $700 each (I can't recall why I did this). The market value of the cards are: $750 for Maris, ~$100 for Giles and $3,500-$7,000 for Mantle.

FedEx rerouted the package to an unknown address in Pennsylvania without my or CGC's permission. No one knows who received the package in Pennsylvania.

CGC has sent me a settlement offer of $500 without even compensation for the CGC grading fees. I am in shock by the offer and for CGC stringing me along for weeks to send such a paltry offer. I have countered at $4,500 and am waiting for their response.

What would you do in this situation? Do I take CGC to small claims court in my state of Louisiana? Do I take FedEx to small claims court?

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Just a logical guess, but if you declared a $700 value for something worth more or less than $700, this doesn't bode well. Not meant to rub salt in a wound. I hope your items will be recovered.

[Johnny630]

I hope it works out for you..

Sadly I think you're fighting a losing battle making a claim or winning a lawsuit. IDK pray it shows up.

[swarmee]

They should have insured the package/be liable for $2,100 since you declared the values at $700 and paid for whatever service level that is. If they self-insured, they should still owe you $2,100 whether or not the post office pays for it.

When you submitted the cards, did they require you to use their state (FL?) if you sued them? You should look at whatever their agreement is. Just by submitting and using their service, you may have already waived your right to sue in your home state. PSA requires all disputes be settled in California, I believe.

[hammertime]

Originally Posted by esd70433

FedEx rerouted the package to an unknown address in Pennsylvania without my or CGC's permission. No one knows who received the package in Pennsylvania.

That can't be true, if FedEx delivered it then they definitely know who it was delivered to. I guess technically your issue is with CGC since you paid them but I'd cut out the middle man and send a letter to FedEx's registered agent in your state, threatening to sue them in small claims court. Make sure you include the tracking and relevant backstory. Time is of the essence in situations like this.

[parkplace33]

Originally Posted by esd70433

Hi all, I am dealing with my first lost grading order and would appreciate any tips or commentary to maximize my dollar recovery from CGC.

I submitted a 3-card order to CGC/JSA of these three autographed cards: 1964 Topps Roger Maris, 1961 Fleer Warren Giles and 1966 Topps Mickey Mantle.

The Maris and Giles came back as inauthentic, but I have good reason to believe both are authentic based on the seller's experience. The Mantle graded a 5 with 7 auto grade. Actual picture below (and marked as stolen on CGC's website):



I submitted each with a declared value of $700 each (I can't recall why I did this). The market value of the cards are: $750 for Maris, ~$100 for Giles and $3,500-$7,000 for Mantle.

FedEx rerouted the package to an unknown address in Pennsylvania without my or CGC's permission. No one knows who received the package in Pennsylvania.

CGC has sent me a settlement offer of $500 without even compensation for the CGC grading fees. I am in shock by the offer and for CGC stringing me along for weeks to send such a paltry offer. I have countered at $4,500 and am waiting for their response.

What would you do in this situation? Do I take CGC to small claims court in my state of Louisiana? Do I take FedEx to small claims court?

What address did they reroute to PA (was it a business or house)?

This is the third post recently about FedEx issues. What is going on over there?

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by parkplace33

What address did they reroute to PA (was it a business or house)?

This is the third post recently about FedEx issues. What is going on over there?

FedEx has always sucked. When I owned 2 businesses they would always deliver my personal and business packages to the wrong address. I even asked one time when the driver scratched out one business address and delivered it to my house. I avoid them like the plague.

My only concern is the OP trying to short the grading company by giving a way low price and now expecting full compensation. The stuff people openly admit to on here is amazing. To be clear i have also gave a low price to save on grading fees. Difference is I would never then try and get a larger amount to screw the company a second time.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Originally Posted by bnorth

The stuff people openly admit to on here is amazing.

+1

[oldjudge]

I agree with some of the prior posts.You’ve already stated that the value of your card was $700.I don’t think that there is any way in the world that you can ever recover more than this. It you submitted three cards why was the order dividend up for return shipment?

[Eric72]

Will CGC upcharge?

Did they upcharge here or did the consider the OP's $700 estimate to be an accurate one?

[tha-rock]

I rarely use FedEx, but have used them successfully in the past, however my last experience with them about 2 months ago was a bit disappointing. I sent a package worth several thousand dollars to CA and they told me at the sales counter that the max that I could insure my package for (FedEx liability) was $1,000 per package in the event of loss or damage. They told me anything greater than $1,000 I could file a claim with my homeowner's insurance. I have never heard such a thing from anyone.

My package took a full week to get to it's destination, but it was delivered successfully.

USPS Registered Mail has a max liability of $50,000 per package, so if you are sending high value items, Registered Mail is the better way to go.

So I would say, if you file a claim with FedEx at most they are only going to pay what the sender insured it for, up to a max of $1,000.

Good luck with it.

[balltrash]

The $500 offer is likely standard protocol as a first step in the hopes that a problem will just go away. That said, at very best you will be compensated at $700 per card if that is what you declared. Kind of hard to expect anything more if that is what you put in writing and I am sure that the legal verbiage on the submission form limits their exposure to that level. The situation is very unfortunate and I do hope that your material turns up at some point.

Edited to add: small claims court is likely going to be an exercise in frustration. I don't doubt that signing the submission form subjects you to terms that clarify what jurisdiction any legal disputes get adjudicated in. And I would have to imagine you will still be limited to your declared value in "damages" anyhow. Not a lawyer but this is my guess. I learned a semi expensive collectibles related lesson recently and it is likley that you are in the same boat.

[bobbyw8469]

I am dumbfounded why people always shortchange themselves. They value high dollar cards extremely cheap just to get a lower grading fee. You would WANT to be compensated at the true value should an order get lost. Take it from someone with experience with "lost orders".

[x2drich2000]

Originally Posted by tha-rock

I rarely use FedEx, but have used them successfully in the past, however my last experience with them about 2 months ago was a bit disappointing. I sent a package worth several thousand dollars to CA and they told me at the sales counter that the max that I could insure my package for (FedEx liability) was $1,000 per package in the event of loss or damage. They told me anything greater than $1,000 I could file a claim with my homeowner's insurance. I have never heard such a thing from anyone.

My package took a full week to get to it's destination, but it was delivered successfully.

USPS Registered Mail has a max liability of $50,000 per package, so if you are sending high value items, Registered Mail is the better way to go.

So I would say, if you file a claim with FedEx at most they are only going to pay what the sender insured it for, up to a max of $1,000.

Good luck with it.

From the FedEx Service Guide (https://www.fedex.com/content/dam/fe...Guide_2025.pdf)
"G. Shipments (packages or freight) containing all or part of the following items are limited to a maximum declared value of US$1,000:...11. Collector’s items such as coins, stamps, sports cards, souvenirs, and memorabilia."

[puckpaul]

Originally Posted by bnorth

FedEx has always sucked. When I owned 2 businesses they would always deliver my personal and business packages to the wrong address. I even asked one time when the driver scratched out one business address and delivered it to my house. I avoid them like the plague.

My only concern is the OP trying to short the grading company by giving a way low price and now expecting full compensation. The stuff people openly admit to on here is amazing. To be clear i have also gave a low price to save on grading fees. Difference is I would never then try and get a larger amount to screw the company a second time.

Well, to be fair, my experience has been that the TPGs never downcharge but they do upcharge so its not crazy to submit at a lower level than the card could be (depends how they grade it).

[premiercardcollectors]

What a nightmare. So sorry to hear this happened. I am dealing with a similar issue with SGC where they severely damaged a card that was sent in an SGC slab for a Reholder due to deep scratches in the old slab. Waiting to see what they decide to "do to me" in this process.

I would think that you are at the very least entitled to the amount that you claimed to be the value of the cards. I hope that you get some relief and if it was me, I would review the contract with CGC to make sure they don't require arbitration of claims. Either way, I would speak with a local attorney in PA to find out what remedies you might have.

If CGC used their own shipping they are not indemnified and are absolutely liable to assist you in collection of damages. Unfortunately though, all the grading companies have contracts that clearly define that claims are limited to the values stated at the time of submission so you would likely be limited to the $2100 in total claims.

[mq711]

Unfortunately, since two of the cards declared value was based on “unauthentic” autographs I would think they won’t pay restitution of more than a few bucks on each.

[rand1com]

Originally Posted by mq711

Unfortunately, since two of the cards declared value was based on “unauthentic” autographs I would think they won’t pay restitution of more than a few bucks on each.

This.

The best you can hope for is the $700 you insured the Mantle for. Playing games with values for insurance purposes will bite you every time if item is lost in shipping. Is the Mantle autographed 1966 Topps worth more than $700? Obviously, but you did not think so when insuring it.

[jimq16415]

Originally Posted by esd70433

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FedEx rerouted the package to an unknown address in Pennsylvania without my or CGC's permission. No one knows who received the package in Pennsylvania.

When I worked at USPS we had the technology to tell EXACTLY where a package was delivered and even where at that house it was delivered. The GPS in our scanners was really good. I retired 5 years ago so I can't believe FedEx doesn't have the same or better technology by now.

That said, your contract is with CGC, not FedEx, and I'm sure their contract is set up so you can't go after them for more than your declared value. They might show the value of the non-authentic as being almost nothing but the Mantle tops out at the 700 you claimed it was worth.

[swarmee]

As they are only providing an opinion and not a certainty, and you valued them at $700 for submission purposes, I would still fight if it they only claim to reimburse you for the Mantle.

[nwobhm]

Originally Posted by mq711

Unfortunately, since two of the cards declared value was based on “unauthentic” autographs I would think they won’t pay restitution of more than a few bucks on each.

Reevaluation of value should be a 2 way street. Now that the Mantle is slabbed it’s worth much more than a raw ungraded card. May have only been worth $700 incoming but outgoing much more. That’s why grading companies exist…no?

[esd70433]

I appreciate everyone’s suggestions and opinions. I fully acknowledge that I shortchanged myself by underdeclaring the value of the Mantle, which I declared at $1,000 upon further review. I bought the Mantle raw at $1,000 or $1,500 or so, so I thought the value tier would suffice. CGC is making it right by settling at $3,500. I can’t be more pleased with their resolution team and will certainly use their JSA services again. The initial $500 settlement offer was made in error, as their initial assessment didn’t take in to account that the card was autographed. I won’t shortchange myself in the future with declared value.

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by esd70433

I appreciate everyone’s suggestions and opinions. I fully acknowledge that I shortchanged myself by underdeclaring the value of the Mantle, which I declared at $1,000 upon further review. I bought the Mantle raw at $1,000 or $1,500 or so, so I thought the value tier would suffice. CGC is making it right by settling at $3,500. I can’t be more pleased with their resolution team and will certainly use their JSA services again. The initial $500 settlement offer was made in error, as their initial assessment didn’t take in to account that the card was autographed. I won’t shortchange myself in the future with declared value.

All's well that ends well, I suppose.

I asked a question earlier. Nobody answered it. Did CGC upcharge you for the submission?

[esd70433]

They did not upcharge me.

[esd70433]

One fun fact I left out was that the only reason I sent the Mantle to CGC was that PSA deemed the auto inauthentic…PSA auto authentication is incredibly frustrating.

[rand1com]

Originally Posted by esd70433

One fun fact I left out was that the only reason I sent the Mantle to CGC was that PSA deemed the auto inauthentic…PSA auto authentication is incredibly frustrating.

PSA/DNA has two of the most respected authenticators in the business in Bill Corcoran and Kevin Keating. Did they also fail the Maris and Giles you sent to JSA?

[esd70433]

Yes, PSA failed the Maris and Giles too

[rand1com]

Not sure why PSA/DNA failed the Mantle. It looks dead on to me. But, obviously we have dueling authenticators on it.

You were very fortunate to get a $3500 settlement on the Mantle as that is the top end for a grade 7 autograph on a 66 Topps card. It helps that the card was a 5 but still they could have easily just settled for the valuation you gave it whether $700 or $1000. Good for them. Somebody may have seen the post on here and figured a positive result to be posted here was worth the additional payoff. Just a guess.

[esd70433]

CGC settled it before the thread caught traction…I don’t think this thread had anything to do with the settlement. I feel quite fortunate.

[rand1com]

Originally Posted by esd70433

CGC settled it before the thread caught traction…I don’t think this thread had anything to do with the settlement. I feel quite fortunate.

Your initial post was up for 30 hours before you stated the final resolution.

That is a LONG time in today's world!