T222 Fatimas Questions

[JamesGallo]

Has anyone ever soaked one of these? I have a card that has tape on the back for no reason and also one that has some stains that would normally soak right off. However I don't know how the photo stock will do with being soaked.

Are all the SP equally rare or are some thought of as being the toughest and key card.

Thanks.

James G

[Rob D.]

You do not want to soak Fatimas or other real-photo cards.

[Matt]

With regard to the toughness, there certainly are gradations - those that have the numbers 12-15 on them are the toughest.
Here is a nice overview of the issue:
http://www.t207.com/t222.shtml

[chaddurbin]

all these casual talks about soaking is getting disturbing. ink mark, let's try soaking....piece of glue, let's soak. yea yea it's not REALLY an "alteration", yea yea i just wanna improve the aesthetic of the card, yea yea i'm just taking something off that wasn't there in the first place (so it's ok). i don't want newbies thinking the default action when in doubt is to soak away. it could lead down a dangerous road and open up other cans of worm when you can justify them.

and i'm no bill cornell (the t222 expert), but soaking a t222 is different than soaking a t206...so it might not have the desired effect. so if you have to ask and are in doubt, then just leave it alone!

[chaddurbin]

i'm wondering if the guy who soaked the e103 wagner below made any money buying it in goodwins (3.5k), then soaking and sending it to psa($100) before consigning it to mile high(3.9k b4 juice)? if you're a board member please share your experience...

[JamesGallo]

Originally Posted by chaddurbin

all these casual talks about soaking is getting disturbing. ink mark, let's try soaking....piece of glue, let's soak. yea yea it's not REALLY an "alteration", yea yea i just wanna improve the aesthetic of the card, yea yea i'm just taking something off that wasn't there in the first place (so it's ok). i don't want newbies thinking the default action when in doubt is to soak away. it could lead down a dangerous road and open up other cans of worm when you can justify them.

and i'm no bill cornell (the t222 expert), but soaking a t222 is different than soaking a t206...so it might not have the desired effect. so if you have to ask and are in doubt, then just leave it alone!

Quan,

I wouldn't call myself a newbee but I don't know everything about ever issue, and I asked because I knew enough about the issue and the differences in paper etc.

The fact of the matter is that this tape is damaging to the paper and will continue to degrade the paper, so from that standpoint IF it can be removed without any adverse effects it is more beneficial to the piece. The tape has already stained the paper and that stain will not come off unless it is professionally cleaned. That is my reasoning.

James G

[chaddurbin]

dear james,

didn't mean to imply ur the newbie, i'm still a noob compared to u. the board is growing at an exponential rate tho so there are def. new people reading.

my engrish is bad in conveying my thoughts clearly, i apologize.

[Rob D.]

I understood your meaning just fine, Quan.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by chaddurbin

i'm wondering if the guy who soaked the e103 wagner below made any money buying it in goodwins (3.5k), then soaking and sending it to psa($100) before consigning it to mile high(3.9k b4 juice)?

I saw that as well - looks like he made $300.

[JamesGallo]

Quan,

If you were going with the slipery slope idea, I get it. I have mixed feelings about soaking and I think it just depends on the card/problem, but in this case I am more worried about the further damage the tape will do verse the damage soaking might do. This is not an issue of "take off the tape to increase the value or condition", it is "take off the tape to preserve the card".

Anyway it seems the tape answer is to not soak.

Matt,
Thanks for the article, as for the rare cards I knew the 12-15 were the "rare" short prints just wondering if any were rarer or sold for more then the others.

James g

[FrankWakefield]

I'm not among those that are outraged at the idea of soaking a card.... seems to me that many T cards were soaked out of scrapbooks, a generation or two ago... and many are in collections today, in the hands of those outraged at the idea of soaking. I'm ok with it. Casually ok.

HOWEVER, don't go trying to soak a T222 Fatima, or a T200 for that matter. You'll find yourself with nothing. I'd think that a restoration or archival person could get that tape off for you. But T222s don't soak. T206s do, Goudeys do... E90-1s do, and it has been going on since before most of us were born.

The card of John Henry is probably the most difficult to locate.

[chaddurbin]

dear james,

are you planning to keep the card for the next 10-15 years? is it a valuable card like a johnson/grover or a super SP that needs preservation urgently? i'd be more inclined to worry about fading on an OJ than a stain on a T222, but i haven't seen a photo of the t222 problem so maybe i don't know the severity.

i don't soak...my position has always been i don't care if others do it, it's not the worst thing to do to a card. if you're honest just lmk when you sell me the card so i can make a choice to buy or not.

[JamesGallo]

Originally Posted by chaddurbin

dear james,

are you planning to keep the card for the next 10-15 years? is it a valuable card like a johnson/grover or a super SP that needs preservation urgently? i'd be more inclined to worry about fading on an OJ than a stain on a T222, but i haven't seen a photo of the t222 problem so maybe i don't know the severity.

i don't soak...my position has always been i don't care if others do it, it's not the worst thing to do to a card. if you're honest just lmk when you sell me the card so i can make a choice to buy or not.

Honestly I don't think it matters. T222's are tough especially when compared to other cards from the era. This is Lapp which seems to be one of the most common cards in the set. Still worth perserving IMO.

http://www.thetoyheaven.com/images/i...ds/bbct222.jpg

The card is not ripped in half and if there is a rip at all it is about an inch long.

James G

[ethicsprof]

James,
i have the Lapp with the fabulous giant catcher's mitt.
i think you meant to say Lloyd rather than Lapp in your last reference.

best,
barry

[bcornell]

I have 3 that have paper on the back, but soaking them seems too risky. There are a bunch in PSA holders that went through that process and they look faded and discolored, but it may be possible.

The toughest cards, from what I've seen, are Henry, Lelivelt, Johnson, L.Magee, Lobert and Schulte. The other 10 short prints are not quite as difficult.



Bill

[Bridwell]

Hi James,

I bought a T200 Fatima and was disappointed to find a piece of clear tape stuck on the back. After getting some advice, I heated up the tape with a hair dryer and peeled it off, with no damage to the card! The heat helps loosen up the sticky stuff. In your case, the tape looks very old, and it is sure to leave a stain but hopefully the tape will come off.

Ron