I think the site is getting visious> sp

[jcmtiger]

I do like that members point out outright flaws and counterfeit, whatever in auction Houses, ebay auctions and all other hobby sites. a similarity (sp) with the politics of the Nation. Negative, Negative!!!!. With no proof, just their opinions on auction house and eBay, see some of the posts. But, I will admit there are many posters that know what they are talking about, just a few that don't, the same posters say the same things over and over. I think it is the same thing, success means bring the successful down. To many experts that are not!!!

any other comments?

Joe

[wonkaticket]

Really?

So you think stuff like this is unfair to the poor auction houses & eBay sellers? You think this is someone like me being jealous of their success and that's the real motive?

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=180508

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=178565

Personally I think the site is fine…if I had to make a list of something to nitpick. Quite frankly at the risk of being too direct I would say we’ve had an influx of grade A idiots here beyond what we used to have but the site has grown etc. I would see that as a bigger issue here than folks pointing out and policing their hobby.

Perhaps you have an example to illustrate your point?

I've seen this rough stance before from you love to get more details and your thoughts Joe.

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=180592

[I Only Smoke 4 the Cards]

Gets vicious sometimes but it has never been directed at me. Really enjoy the site and have learned a lot.

[edjs]

I have been here for a short time, but for one I value that people here point out when auctions are dealing items not on the up and up. And the advice, camaraderie, and free exchange of knowledge has invigorated my enthusiasm for the hobby. Thanks again to Leon for letting me join.

[jcmtiger]

I just think some collectors on the site are getting to big for there britches. I have been collecting since 1973 and have seen a lot in those years. The same posters seem to post the same over and over about the auction houses. But, everyone seems to bid in these same auctions over and over. Some the experts on the board point out skinned, trimmed and altered cards all the time. Just by looking at scans, by the way. I do applaud the ones that are maybe right and the way they approach it.

As for as the auction sites, maybe they did bid on their own auctions, I don't know and I am not sure if the posters that say they did really know for sure.

I will say that I have bid and bought on auctions held by Lelands and Mastros and I do know both Josh and Bill and if they did wrong they will pay. By the way the people they worked with are still in the hobby.

Joe

[wonkaticket]

Joe I ask again do you have any examples of these “big for their britches” posts? Otherwise it just sounds like sour grapes and venting.

As for the people bidding with auction houses we are all guilty of doing business with folks who don’t deserve our business that is a problem I agree.

Cheers,

John

[Runscott]

Joe, I would love to think that anyone who has the same hobby passions as me, must be primarily in it because of their passion for collecting, and that they are all super-nice, extremely honest people.

But that would be me being a blind moron.

[EvilKing00]

I couldn't disagree more. The guys on this site that point out the fraud on auction houses and ebay are helping other members here so we don't get ripped off.

I would take some of these guys opinions anyday.

FYI next thread you see that is calling out a fake, why not just reply, with something like, "why is this a fake, I would like to learn how to catch one myself" and im sure they will point it out. I have learned quite a bit from asking questions.

[bobbyw8469]

FYI next thread you see that is calling out a fake, why not just reply, with something like, "why is this a fake, I would like to learn how to catch one myself" and im sure they will point it out. I have learned quite a bit from asking questions.

+1. I have learned a lot from these boards. And if you ever come across a suspect Sport Kings card, let me know. Those fakes are easy to spot, even for a rank amateur like me, yet people on Ebay still seem to bid on them and get stuck with them.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by wonkaticket

Personally I think the site is fine…if I had to make a list of something to nitpick. Quite frankly at the risk of being too direct I would say we’ve had an influx of grade A idiots here beyond what we used to have ....

Nailed it. The collective IQ on Net 54 has dropped 15 points in the past 5 years.

[I Only Smoke 4 the Cards]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Nailed it. The collective IQ on Net 54 has dropped 15 points in the past 5 years.

This seems kind of vicious. I enjoy the site because it gives me an opportunity to learn about the hobby.

[Section103]

It seems the same to me.

Good members have been lost and that will be mourned for a long time.
Eager new members come to learn and keep the place from becoming stale.
Inevitably some new member comes and can not or will not understand nuances of the culture.
EBay will get raked. More often than not, rightfully so.
Discourse will sink below levels that just should not happen. The Christmas Eat a dick thread comes to mind as just one.
The board goes on.

[btcarfagno]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Nailed it. The collective IQ on Net 54 has dropped 15 points in the past 5 years.

Well I joined three years ago so...

...wait a minute...

Tom C

[Julz24]

No one wants to be swimming in negativity all the time. For that we could all just watch the news. My favorite topics here are often found with the help of the search function. But I appreciate the threads where members point out shilled auctions and phony cards. 95% of everything I know about vintage cards was learned here on Net54. Before I found this site, the last time I had heard the term pre war was in social studies class in H.S. Once I learn the difference between a W555 and a D308, I can add more to the discussions. Until then, I will defer to the experts and make my way back to the search button.

[ALR-bishop]

What was it to begin with ?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

What was it to begin with ?

54

[bnorth]

Is this what shilling looks like? Bidder -***o(893) 73% bid history with seller and 25 bid retractions? http://www.ebay.com/itm/1990-Topps-4.../360833085586? I have never been accused of being too bright and hope this is not vicious.

[ullmandds]

Some reasons why there may be an increase in hostility are:

-unwillingness of members to do just the slightest bit of research prior to asking what may be perceived as "dumb" question...or atleast questions that have been hashed, rehashed, mashed and discussed ad nauseum many many times b4

-people coming here with the intent to commit acts of crookery

[itjclarke]

Geez, clearly some think highly of their own intellect. I've been on for about 2.5 years, so I guess I'm part of the IQ nosedive as well.

Oh well, at least I get to look at cool cards, post some of my own, and regularly learn new things. N54 has been a great place for me. I do see what the OP is talking about, and it can get off putting if/when people continue to pile on someone.. But I'm with the rest, in that if the posters here are protecting others from scammers, fakes, and getting ripped off, I'm all for it.

[egbeachley]

Originally Posted by jcmtiger

To many experts that are not!!!

any other comments?

Joe

If you think this is bad you should go back 6-7 years. Members were even pointing out grammar errors. I would never do that.

[WillowGrove]

Originally Posted by btcarfagno

Well I joined three years ago so...

...wait a minute...

Tom C

And I joined 4 years ago, so I made it in. Oh wait no 5 is MORE than 4. Darn.

[ullmandds]

I miss the days of the grammar police!!!

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

I miss the days of the grammar police!!!

No kidding...the title of this thread would have gotten the once over.

[Paul S]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

I miss the days of the grammar police!!!

Really! I was about to post a reply of the viscosity of maple syrup.

[kcohen]

Originally Posted by egbeachley

If you think this is bad you should go back 6-7 years. Members were even pointing out grammar errors. I would never do that.

Geez Mr. Sloate. I really don't think that you deserved that cheap shot.

[itjclarke]

Originally Posted by Paul S

Really! I was about to post a reply of the viscosity of maple syrup.

I'm saying 150 centipoieses

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

54

Exactly. How do you think Net 54 got its name?

[Julz24]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Exactly. How do you think Net 54 got its name?

I thought 54 was the age requirement to be a member?? My bad.

Of course I'm still waiting on my IQ certification pw. I swear they take forever.

[I Only Smoke 4 the Cards]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Exactly. How do you think Net 54 got its name?

Hahaha

[Paul S]

Originally Posted by itjclarke

I'm saying 150 centipoieses

So I guess the meaning of this thread is for all dummies to keep our poiese?

[bn2cardz]

I am relatively new (2 years) to this board. Yet, reading through archived threads I don't see that it has gotten worse. People are still people and there a good threads and bad threads.

I think it is similar to how each generation thinks the generation after them is worse. Or how some elders talk about the "good ol days" and how they were so much better yet forget the World War and the great depression they lived through.

[steve B]

I only joined a bit over 4 years ago.

I hope I've added something.
I do know I've learned a lot, especially about stuff I don't usually see and often don't look closely at because I simply can't afford it.

This board can be a harsh place. Most people here will give someone a chance, but there's little tolerance for any sort of shenanigans.
As someone who mostly deals with cheap stuff, It sometimes might seem a bit uptight. But then I consider that the fake item might sell for thousands and it makes a lot more sense. If I buy a card for $5 and it's fake or shilled I'd feel bad, but chalk it up as something learned. If I had bought one of the fake Magies I'd really have a problem.

I don't agree with everyone about everything, and that's something I actually think is good. But I also don't buy the common internet concept that everyones opinion is equal. Some of the people here were dealers before I started collecting, and have handled multiples of cards I'll probably never own. Some people only started recently (Welcome to the asylum ! ) I know whose opinion I'd give more weight. But I would at least read all of them.
The same goes for people in some professions. I'm always baffled by someone who questions a solid opinion by for instance a lawyer discussing law unless they're in the same line of work.

I'm not particularly shy about expressing an opinion, and sometimes I'm wrong. I think a big part of having strong opinions is being able to change them when I'm wrong and being able to say "I was wrong" Of course I also tend to state things in ways that a lot of people don't get. (Seldom any absolutes, and a sliding scale of how sure I am)

And I'm rambling.....Sorry, I'm still working on that. Probably always will be.

Steve B

[Leon]

Originally Posted by bn2cardz

I am relatively new (2 years) to this board. Yet, reading through archived threads I don't see that it has gotten worse. People are still people and there a good threads and bad threads.

I think it is similar to how each generation thinks the generation after them is worse. Or how some elders talk about the "good ol days" and how they were so much better yet forget the World War and the great depression they lived through.

You are correct Andy. The more our hobby changes the more it stays the same. Every time someone says "gee, there are a lot of idiots on the board" I tell them to put 5000 people in a room and see what you get. As we have gotten bigger, which I think is better, it's just the way it is. Also, many times, when I or someone else posts things about the history of our hobby from 30-75 yrs ago, we see the EXACT same sentiments being bantered about. To me it's all good. We need the wild swings to the right and left to have harmony, imo. But then again my IQ hasn't reached 54 yet.

[autograf]

Hopefully the IQ gets there before the waistline for most of us..............

[4815162342]

I joined the (old) board in January 2009. My apologies for contributing to the decline of the Net54 collective IQ.

[slidekellyslide]

I'd like Joe to come back to his own thread and give some examples as to where the board is being vicious. I think there have been instances where the board has ganged up on other posters, but it's usually (almost always?) because that poster did something untoward...This board gets results, there is no reason why we should have to put up with shilling, card doctoring, or other shady practices.

[wolf441]

Originally Posted by steve B

I only joined a bit over 4 years ago.

I hope I've added something.
I do know I've learned a lot, especially about stuff I don't usually see and often don't look closely at because I simply can't afford it.

This board can be a harsh place. Most people here will give someone a chance, but there's little tolerance for any sort of shenanigans.
As someone who mostly deals with cheap stuff, It sometimes might seem a bit uptight. But then I consider that the fake item might sell for thousands and it makes a lot more sense. If I buy a card for $5 and it's fake or shilled I'd feel bad, but chalk it up as something learned. If I had bought one of the fake Magies I'd really have a problem.

I don't agree with everyone about everything, and that's something I actually think is good. But I also don't buy the common internet concept that everyones opinion is equal. Some of the people here were dealers before I started collecting, and have handled multiples of cards I'll probably never own. Some people only started recently (Welcome to the asylum ! ) I know whose opinion I'd give more weight. But I would at least read all of them.
The same goes for people in some professions. I'm always baffled by someone who questions a solid opinion by for instance a lawyer discussing law unless they're in the same line of work.

I'm not particularly shy about expressing an opinion, and sometimes I'm wrong. I think a big part of having strong opinions is being able to change them when I'm wrong and being able to say "I was wrong" Of course I also tend to state things in ways that a lot of people don't get. (Seldom any absolutes, and a sliding scale of how sure I am)

And I'm rambling.....Sorry, I'm still working on that. Probably always will be.

Steve B

I've only been on the board for a bit less than 2 years, but I know that I've learned a ton from your posts Steve, particularly around the printing process. You are definitely an asset to the forum, so keep on posting!!

[wonkaticket]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

I'd like Joe to come back to his own thread and give some examples as to where the board is being vicious. I think there have been instances where the board has ganged up on other posters, but it's usually (almost always?) because that poster did something untoward...This board gets results, there is no reason why we should have to put up with shilling, card doctoring, or other shady practices.

+1 I'll ask a second time Joe do you have examples?

[kcohen]

OK John. Here's an example.

[frankbmd]

Leon,

I know you hate to subdivide the forum into ever increasing sections, but this thread is completely ignoring the Grade B idiots. Perhaps they need their own forum section. Let us strive to be inclusive, divisive and derisive.

[wonkaticket]

Originally Posted by Leon

You are correct Andy. The more our hobby changes the more it stays the same. Every time someone says "gee, there are a lot of idiots on the board" I tell them to put 5000 people in a room and see what you get. As we have gotten bigger, which I think is better, it's just the way it is. Also, many times, when I or someone else posts things about the history of our hobby from 30-75 yrs ago, we see the EXACT same sentiments being bantered about. To me it's all good. We need the wild swings to the right and left to have harmony, imo. But then again my IQ hasn't reached 54 yet.

Leon, agree and that's what I meant by the site has grown from the old days, and while I will stick to my guns that there have been some real wall lickers that have come and gone there has been some real good guys as well. The one constant that has been has been you Leon just remember you will always be our king.

I may have to get you this hat for the National.





I also know the earfuls Josh Leland gave you about Jeff and I I’m sure you had our backs. Kudos for that.

[Paul S]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

Leon,

I know you hate to subdivide the forum into ever increasing sections, but this thread is completely ignoring the Grade B idiots. Perhaps they need their own forum section. Let us strive to be inclusive, divisive and derisive.

Frank, would that work? This is why I never go into the chat area. I'm too impetuous on the ENTER button before I edit.

What a maroon - Bugs Bunny

[nolemmings]

Wait a minute, if Leon's our king then who are the Kings of Leon?

[Paul S]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

Wait a minute, if Leon's our king then who are the Kings of Leon?

I don't know the answer. Maybe they were related to the House of David?

[itjclarke]

Originally Posted by Paul S

So I guess the meaning of this thread is for all dummies to keep our poiese?

Damn, and the collective IQ drops even further (assist to my phone keyboard)- "centipoise"

[atx840]

Originally Posted by wolf441

I've only been on the board for a bit less than 2 years, but I know that I've learned a ton from your posts Steve, particularly around the printing process. You are definitely an asset to the forum, so keep on posting!!

Big +1

Steve, I really appreciate your insight into all things print related....I've learned a ton from your posts

[chipperhank44]

I think passion and the responsibility to protect the hobby can be misconstrued as "viciousness". Righteous anger or outrage is what I have seen it as, not senseless vicious attacks. Just my perspective though.

[barrysloate]

Originally Posted by kcohen

Geez Mr. Sloate. I really don't think that you deserved that cheap shot.

Thanks Ken. Not a big deal. I still believe people should write clearly and accurately, even if nobody else agrees.

[wonkaticket]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Thanks Ken. Not a big deal. I still believe people should write clearly and accurately, even if nobody else agrees.

I agrees Barry.

[Mikehealer]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Thanks Ken. Not a big deal. I still believe people should write clearly and accurately, even if nobody else agrees.

Barry, I agree. I for one miss your spelling and grammar corrections.