REA PSA 3 T227 HLC Johnson

[Exhibitman]

$4,560.00

[scooter729]

As crazy as that one seems, I think I was more blown away by the SGC 4 T218 blue Johnson that sold on eBay a few days ago for $1,500+.

Johnson is en fuego right now.....

[D. Bergin]

While being sad that I sold off most of my Johnsons years ago, I'm kind of thinking, it's about time.

If Tyson's and Mayweathers and Pacquiao's are gonna sell for what they sell for...............why'd it take so long for the Babe Ruth, Ty Cobb, Josh Gibson, Honus Wagner of boxing to catch up?

[Exhibitman]

I may need to make some decisions...

[scooter729]

I'm waiting to see how high the '66 Panini Clay PSA 8 goes. Currently at $6,275 with a few days remaining....

[Exhibitman]

Where's that one?

[scooter729]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Where's that one?

Here

It's the rare sideways tilt version that's driving the high price!

[Exhibitman]

Hard pass. When I analyze card prices I discard PWCC and Probstein results.

[G1911]

At least T227 isn't an easy set and has its profile raised by the inclusion of baseball players. I'm more amazed by the recent sales of T218's, at least one of which is a super-print and one of the most common of all T cards. There are more than enough T218 Johnson's to go around. And yet here's a beat up raw one that sold for $272 last week: https://www.ebay.com/itm/1910-Hassan...MAAOSwK2xgSZuX


And here's a PSA 2 MK that went for $416: https://www.ebay.com/itm/1910-Champi...UAAOSwgAFgQhxr


An SGC 3, and not an under graded or particularly nice looking example, for over $1,000: https://www.ebay.com/itm/1910-T218-M...IAAOSwMTdgPs3Y.


Perhaps most absurd of all is the prices on his 1938 Churchman, another extremely common (and usually high grade card) going for more than a complete set would a year ago. A PSA 6 sold last week for $162, a grade that is the norm for this issue: https://www.ebay.com/itm/1938-Church...kAAOSwBTpgRIwe. Or perhaps a raw one for $100: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Original-19...8AAOSwoyFgMGN5


His T219 for $1,500 (I paid $715 for a Miners Extra a few months ago and thought I was overpaying): https://www.ebay.com/itm/1910-T219-H...UAAOSw5T5fvc4n


His T218 Tolstoi (I paid $350 for a grade lower in 2019) for $2,000 looks like a steal in comparison to what the Hassan and Mecca's are selling at: https://www.ebay.com/itm/1910-T218-T...gAAOSw7Hlfvc6o


All March sales.

[Exhibitman]

People like the Churchmans cards. They are nicely done but so common. Boxing cards stagnated for years; I think we are overdue for some price rises, even on some more common stuff.

[G1911]

It's the 1,000% skyrocket raises in just months that are odd and seem a bit absurd to me, not some stuff gradually going up or being overdue. Though I don't think there are many people that interested in c. 1910 boxing which is why prices have been flat for so many years on this material, and stuff outside of Johnson are not inflating at anywhere close to this rate, if at all. I'm still picking up moderately tough cards off eBay for little more or the same as I did 15 years ago.


There are more people looking for T206 Red Portrait Cobb super prints than there are Cobbs, I'm not sure that is suddenly true of the T218 Johnson superprint. I highly doubt it is for the 1938 Churchman's. This doesn't have the trend line of growing interest or overdue recognition. Johnson's prices hardly moved when he was fairly prominent in the news in 2018 after receiving the pardon from President Trump.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by G1911

I'm still picking up moderately tough cards off eBay for little more or the same as I did 15 years ago.

True. I just looked at a 9 year history of the 1937 Ardath Louis on PSA's site and prices have basically stagnated throughout. Some stuff has gone very high:

--Johnson
--Tyson
--Modern RCs: Pacquiao, Holyfield
--early Clay/Ali
--PSA 10 1990s cards

Some stuff has been moving up but not spectacularly, mostly the heavyweight champs and legendary lighter fighters like Duran, Hagler, etc.

Makes me wonder what would happen if genuinely rare stuff was offered for sale.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

True. I just looked at a 9 year history of the 1937 Ardath Louis on PSA's site and prices have basically stagnated throughout. Some stuff has gone very high:

--Johnson
--Tyson
--Modern RCs: Pacquiao, Holyfield
--early Clay/Ali
--PSA 10 1990s cards

Some stuff has been moving up but not spectacularly, mostly the heavyweight champs and legendary lighter fighters like Duran, Hagler, etc.

Makes me wonder what would happen if genuinely rare stuff was offered for sale.

Your list is basically what I've noticed, it's this small subset of items going sky high. I've hardly seen any actually tough cards come up for sale since the pandemic response began, "don't see every day" cards that take some time and patience haven't moved on the whole, but I would suspect potential sellers are holding for now and that's why the listings have been dry. I just got a T225 G white border for $10, same price as my first one 15 years ago, but not a lot of stuff much tougher than this tier has been popping up at all.


Perhaps Johnson's prices will be sustained by the narrative around him, not sure anyone is really going to start caring about boxing history that much as the sport continues to generally be outside the mainstream. Glad I bought some Johnsons for my master sets when I did. Johnson T218 being 100X Jeffries T218 is insane to me, but what the heck do I know! The others seeing large price increases can be explained by the influx of free time + cash into the US, with a strong nostalgia element. Nobody who cared about Johnson is alive now, and unlike baseball history that remains a popular interest with people, almost none of the much fewer boxing fans care much about a century ago. I thought after his prices failed to change much in 2018, probably the last time he will be prominently pushed into the public eye much, that they weren't going to go up that much. I was sure wrong!


Still need both his Honest Long Cut T219's, and his common T218 Mecca S2-649 card. Those are sure going to hurt now.

[scooter729]

Originally Posted by G1911

Still need both his Honest Long Cut T219's, and his common T218 Mecca S2-649 card. Those are sure going to hurt now.

What do you mean by BOTH his HLC T219's? He has just the blue version in T219, right? Or are you referring to a factory variation?

[G1911]

Originally Posted by scooter729

What do you mean by BOTH his HLC T219's? He has just the blue version in T219, right? Or are you referring to a factory variation?

T219 has four backs possible

Honest Long Cut Black
Honest Long Cut Green
Miners Extra
Red Cross

Honest Long Cut black is 2-3x as common as the Green text HLC back, which is something like 2-3x as common as Miners Extra (in my humble, completely uneducated opinion). I’m trying to do a 150 card set since the Red Crosses are just not a realistic goal unless I stumble across a find of them. I’m about 99% certain all cards exist in all backs, though I have not yet confirmed all Honest Greens exist

Johnson (Green) pose definitely doesn’t exist in T219.

[scooter729]

Thanks for the info - I assumed that was what you were referring to, and not that there was a green version. But just wanted to make sure I wasn’t missing something!

The black vs green back info is helpful - I’m not an expert on T219s so I wasn’t aware of this...

[Exhibitman]

T219 Red Cross are ridiculously HTF. I think the most I had was around 15 and that was because I found seven of them at a card show. Now I am down to one or two (not sure; been a year since I went to the bank to visit the rare stuff, but I plan to get over there once my 2nd dose of vaccine kicks in).

I wonder what would happen at auction if some of the nasty stuff was put up. I may test the waters with a few items and see.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by scooter729

Thanks for the info - I assumed that was what you were referring to, and not that there was a green version. But just wanted to make sure I wasn’t missing something!

The black vs green back info is helpful - I’m not an expert on T219s so I wasn’t aware of this...

I have yet to run into another collector that really cares about the Honest Long Cut color difference; people seem to care about the 3 brands only for this one. I guess it is not a particularly exciting variation, but the T219 Johnson doesn't appear often with any back, or so it seems to me!

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

T219 Red Cross are ridiculously HTF. I think the most I had was around 15 and that was because I found seven of them at a card show. Now I am down to one or two (not sure; been a year since I went to the bank to visit the rare stuff, but I plan to get over there once my 2nd dose of vaccine kicks in).

I wonder what would happen at auction if some of the nasty stuff was put up. I may test the waters with a few items and see.

There was that one complete set a few years ago, and then a few months ago someone bought a lot of 22 ripped up beaters for $25 on an eBay BIN (still disappointed I missed that one). Those are the only times I recall seeing Red Crosses in any kind of quantity, been tracking T219 since 2004. Still need one as a type card, been the underbidder on a few. I doubt there are more than a couple dozen of any 1 front out there.

Will be interested to see what yours sell for if you test the open market right now.

[Exhibitman]

Well, I am keeping the Ketchel but I supposedly have a Patsey Kline too. Damned if I can find it, though.

[butcher354435]

There hasn't been a lot of the scarcier vintage material on the market in the last few years so it will be interesting to see when the next batch emerges. Regarding the T219 Red Cross's... they are really tough! I've been able to accumulate a nice size stack over the last 20 years but it took some effort!

[scooter729]

I sold some E80 commons on eBay and offline a couple of months back, which went pretty strong. I have been tempted to see what I would get for my Jack Johnson, but I know I wouldn't be able to replace it the way this market is headed, so this one will stay put for now!

[Exhibitman]

Ditto



Though mine does have a little Burdick bonus back too.

[scooter729]

Probably a mid-thousands card now, Adam - very nice! Though this new breed of deep-pocketed buyers will have no clue who Jefferson Burdick was....

[butcher354435]

For the trifecta... Great cards!

E80 Philadelphia Caramel - Johnson, Jack - sgc 80.jpg

[scooter729]

You guys made me feel so small now! But I love seeing such gorgeous E80 Johnsons!

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by scooter729

... this new breed of deep-pocketed buyers will have no clue who Jefferson Burdick was....

Sad but true. Makes me feel like an old fart to think that way, though.

Brent, I'd rather have yours. Wanna trade?

[aljurgela]

Originally Posted by butcher354435

For the trifecta... Great cards!

Attachment 448648

Nice to see you man. I guess I have been MIA for awhile now too!

Al