NO LONGER CURIOUS... thx for feedback

[Belfast1933]

Plenty of feedback received now... not pleasant but helpful. I'm open to continuing discussions 1-1 with anyone who's willing to do so.

Thx -
Jeff

[ALBB]

Yea,
Ive seen and noticed that also on the site at times,

Often, its just a guys comment that might be a bit " against the grain " , and it quickly becomes a 20+ back and forth " posting war "with others

Im quite sure it would never happen face to face/ in person

[ClementeFanOh]

Albert- Bingo! It's a wonderful thing that the snarks are in a minority. They
do their best to compensate with anger, or utter unwillingness to comment on
the nature of a post so long as they can get some jab in, and pleas that
they aren't the instigators when they, well, clearly are... These clowns are
all "Twitter muscle", and their value is only in their own minds. Trent King

[philliesfan]

I agree with you. We need the new comers to just ignore the few grumps and enjoy the forum and the hobby.

To me it is easy to ignore the grumps......I have a lot of practice as I am married haha. Just kidding.

Life is too short to be unpleasant all the time. It takes more effort to frown than it is to smile.

So just enjoy life and the hobby everyone!

Bob

[NiceDocter]

It’s the baseball card collecting version of Road Rage

[toledo_mudhen]

I don't know that I see what you are talking so much? Been on these boards for a long long time now and most of the dialogue I see is genuine back and forth on Cards, Personalities, and BST.

Not to say that if you want to start a snipe war that there wont be takers - just that my experience has been - If you dont start none then there wont be none.

N54 is by far my most favorite place to hang out early mornings and weekends (YEA I KNOW - GET A LIFE )

[Leon]

Is this place any worse than FB or any of the other socials, in this respect? I think not.
If any member feels that someone follows them around giving them a hard time, without provocation, give me a PM and we can ask them to stop.
.

Gotta love the nose...

[Brent G.]

Originally Posted by Leon

Is this place any worse than FB or any of the other socials, in this respect? I think not.
If any member feels that someone follows them around giving them a hard time, without provocation, give me a PM and we can ask them to stop.
.

Gotta love the nose...

This place is my refuge from the vitriol of the outside world and all social media — I'm on here way more than I should be ... LOL. Are there some grumps and wise-asses, sure, but overall it's a great escape, source of education, and place of trustworthy commerce. I've seen Leon send cease-and-desists to members of 10+ years who cross the line, and while that's a rare occasion, the site's in great hands.

Sadly, we're now a society largely engaged in endless verbal combat, but it happens less here than about any other place online.

[SyrNy1960]

It's a part of life no matter what you're a part of. People are people, and we all think and see things differently at times. Some are more aggressive than others. Personally, I hate to see when people go at each other too hard. Cut throat, deep, nasty, saying hateful things to each other. Don't think it should ever elevate to that level. Haven't seen much of that lately, so that's a good thing.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

I've been here about 20 years. I took at least 10 years mostly away because, among other reasons, some of the aspects touched upon were enough to make me call it a day. I've had mixed feelings about sticking around, but I'm still here.

There are obviously a lot more people who read and refrain from posting than the core group of what feels like 20 people at any given time. Some of the names might change, but it's always been a tiny group of regulars vs. non-contributing members.

[mortimer brewster]

Whether I am on this site or out in public, I just ignore any negativity I encounter especially from someone I do not know.

Their behavior may be due to something they are dealing with in their private lives. It may be a medical issue (mental or physical), Marital strive etc. Or they could just be an A$$hole.

Regardless, I don't take it personally.

I'm mostly a visitor to this site (daily) and rarely comment.

This site keeps my collecting spirit up! I love the passion.

[butchie_t]

I have a short list, they are on it, it works for me.

Butch

[BobbyStrawberry]

Some people are just hateful. Fortunately the decent people on here vastly outnumber the hateful ones.

But it's true what you are saying, Jeff - I have heard from newish members who decided not to be active here because they were on the receiving end of someone's hateful posts.

The "ignore list" is a useful feature for those select a-holes...the only problem is that you still see their comments when they are quoted by someone else!

[OhioLawyerF5]

I notice far fewer angry people here than any other site I've been on. If you feel the need to sit on the sidelines here, don't venture to other sites. This place is a bastion of peace in an internet of turmoil.

[raulus]

Well, hopefully I’m not on the list of trolls.

I will admit to leaning heavily into the sarcasm trade, which often doesn’t communicate well in written form. And that could part of the story. For some of us, our written communications may come off more aggressive than intended.

It’s also likely that some people just take life too seriously. Maybe they just believe too much in the Cobra Kai mantra:

“We do not train to be merciful here. Mercy is for the weak. Here, in the streets, in competition: A man confronts you, he is the enemy. An enemy deserves no mercy.”

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by raulus

Well, hopefully I’m not on the list of trolls.

I will admit to leaning heavily into the sarcasm trade, which often doesn’t communicate well in written form. And that could part of the story. For some of us, our written communications may come off more aggressive than intended.

It’s also likely that some people just take life too seriously. Maybe they just believe too much in the Cobra Kai mantra:

“We do not train to be merciful here. Mercy is for the weak. Here, in the streets, in competition: A man confronts you, he is the enemy. An enemy deserves no mercy.”

For the most part, the people I've seen here reserve that mentality for price negotiations.

[bigfish]

Originally Posted by Belfast1933

I may regret posting this, but many times I have wanted to ask the question WHY are some here so ANGRY seemingly all the time?

This site is overflowing with collector experience, goodwill, willingness to share their knowledge with the rest of us. I have no doubt that the good here far outweighs the “angry few”

But I often have members tell me that they won’t post or they just watch without being active because they don’t want to subject themselves to the snarky and mean-spirited rips that sometimes comes with asking questions, starting discussions, etc.

Yeah, I usually don’t engage with the McNasty types, but it’s not always easy to “just ignore” the angry few. I think we all lose out when new members decide to sit on the sidelines and not contribute (with questions or answers) for fear of being the recipient of some members angry flexes.

What do I hope to get from this post?

I would love to see some “sideline only” members here reconsider their watch only approach and to feel comfortable chipping in with their questions, opinions and ideas without worry that they’ll take hits from the few but frequent cranks.

Very curious to see how this subject is perceived - also curious to hear from others. I just can’t imagine that I am the only one who is asking this question?

Jeff

I have been on here for approx 15 years. I think it’s a great forum run by great people. I do see people getting chippy when they see a pattern of a poster doing the same thing over and over. It tends to be when they don’t do their homework or are looking for others to do it. Also when they try to use the board for free advertising to pump their own tires.

When I first started here I posted for help with certain items. Items that were easy to google myself. Someone posted why don’t you google this. You know what they were right.

I like the balance on the board and think feedback.given is usually spot on. Like it or not.

Happy collection

Toby Peterson

[doug.goodman]

I blame everything on the announcer team from the game last night, those guys were TERRIBLE, particularly the non-ex-player.

But the Tigers radio guy might be my new favorite announcer.

[JollyElm]

I did this a while ago for one of my threads, but you can basically plug in any thread and it's still the case...

guylookingbackatgirlmemenet54threads.jpg

[Peter_Spaeth]

With all the sales outlets in this hobby, the vast majority of which we all know of course, Jeff has found a way to get 15-25 percent more for consignors? Stunning if true.

That's what he says.
https://grossvintagebaseball.com/

Same page as "deep expertise," "unmatched knowledge [and] connections," etc.

No "hate" in this post, but certainly some skepticism.

[Kutcher55]

Snark can be a good thing sometimes in the face of hypocrisy or an evident lack of self awareness. Like basically any platform, things can occasionally go overboard. But overall this is a fine place and hard to top when it comes to the sharing of vintage collecting knowledge.

[Directly]

I'm very angry 1987 Fleer Michael Jordan Rookie cards sellers are asking obscene prices -- although guess Ill buy a couple more high end cards if I can-

[parkplace33]

Sadly, it’s ingrained in the hobby. Rarely do I find guys that want to help each other out. Everyone wants to maximize all the time.

Additionally, the amount of jealous in card collecting is absurd. I am happy when others add to their collection, but I feel that this is the minority view.

[Johnny630]

Most of it I think comes down to ego. This is a great board a lot of guys here have a great success and prestige in life via their career or families and their collections. Many times have to be right about every card-related difference of opinion and will continue till they get the peanut gallery to co-sign their argument/opinion.

I would venture to say many people on this board are much nicer than sometimes their comments come out :-) I take it with a grain of salt. They really don’t mean anything by it, just strong and passionate about their thoughts.

[MooseDog]

Unfortunate part of any online group.

One of the nice features of the Board is that you can "ignore" certain posters. It works just like the Bad Bidder list on eBay.

Just above the first post in any thread, you'll see a menu bar; the first option is User CP. Click here, then on the list of options on the left, choose Edit Ignore List. Enter the handle of any posters you choose to ignore, and all you'll see is that they've posted something in a thread, with something to the effect of "you have blocked posts from this user" where you would normally see what they posted. You don't have to read their drivel unless you want to.

I'm just here for the cards and memorabilia. This tool has significantly improved the site experience for me since I started using it.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Originally Posted by parkplace33

Sadly, it’s ingrained in the hobby. Rarely do I find guys that want to help each other out. Everyone wants to maximize all the time.

Additionally, the amount of jealous in card collecting is absurd. I am happy when others add to their collection, but I feel that this is the minority view.

I always figured these points were prevalent throughout the entire hobby. I'm not sure about other sports, but I when returned to hockey realm several years ago after decades away, I was so pleasantly surprised to find it was generally a different mindset among the collectors and even dealers. Far friendlier, less shadiness and a much greater willingness for collectors to help each other out. It was so refreshing. As to baseball, though, you're sadly spot on.

It was my experience that the baseball history research community was also absurd, perhaps more so. Don't you dare share any of your independent discoveries privately with anyone. There are people happy to take credit for your work, and for what? Bragging rights? I'll simply conduct my research quietly and privately and they can do theirs.

[SyrNy1960]

Originally Posted by parkplace33

Sadly, it’s ingrained in the hobby. Rarely do I find guys that want to help each other out. Everyone wants to maximize all the time.

Additionally, the amount of jealous in card collecting is absurd. I am happy when others add to their collection, but I feel that this is the minority view.

Well said! Especially the second part. I’ll never understand that mindset.

[Snapolit1]

The fact that cards have in some areas run up astronomically has left a very bitter taste in the mouth of some who "missed out". Their anger, though misplaced, is kind of understandable.

I'm sure at times people have written my comments off as snarky bs. Fair enough. Once or twice a year I get pulled into some political horseshit and immediately regret it. But I also feel there are people who want to be little Mary Sunshine at every opportunity and seldom say anything of much value. I think boards like this are a lot more valuable when you express an honest opinion, and don't just reflexively respond "oh that's wonderful . . . congratulations" to every post. Not a justification for going out of your way and picking a fight with someone, or attacking them personally.

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

I'm sure at times people have written my comments off as snarky bs. Fair enough. Once or twice a year I get pulled into some political horseshit and immediately regret it. But I also feel there are people who want to be little Mary Sunshine at every opportunity and seldom say anything of much value. I think boards like this are a lot more valuable when you express an honest opinion, and don't just reflexively respond "oh that's wonderful . . . congratulations" to every post. Not a justification for going out of your way and picking a fight with someone, or attacking them personally.

This is a great point. So much activity on here is essentially

"Look how much money I just spent!"
"Wow, congrats"

Such "discussions" aren't really a space for newcomers, or really anyone who doesn't want to participate in the "mine is bigger than yours" game.

More honest discussions and less "showing off" would help achieve what OP is asking about, IMO

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by parkplace33

Sadly, it’s ingrained in the hobby. Rarely do I find guys that want to help each other out. Everyone wants to maximize all the time.



Additionally, the amount of jealous in card collecting is absurd. I am happy when others add to their collection, but I feel that this is the minority view.

This is not my experience at all. I must be hanging around a different crowd. I have found this hobby is full of people who want to help other collectors. I've always said, and it's still true, every big rare card in my collection has a story that involves a fellow collector looking out for me in some way.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

This is not my experience at all. I must be hanging around a different crowd. I have found this hobby is full of people who want to help other collectors. I've always said, and it's still true, every big rare card in my collection has a story that involves a fellow collector looking out for me in some way.

I agree. I'm also surprised how many people posting in this thread consider this place to be so negative. I don't see any problems at all. Makes me think maybe I should do some introspection and ask myself if I've annoyed people on here lately..... but I'd rather enjoy this beautiful autumn day.

[BRoberts]

Can we please be clear about something? What prompted this thread by the OP was a couple negative posts about his practice of continually posting questions and publicizing *his business*. This is not a collector seeking information in order to enjoy the hobby more, which seems to be the premise of most of the responses in this thread.

Jeff Gross professes on his website to be an expert about baseball cards. So much so that he can sell your cards for upwards of 25 percent more “than traditional sales options.” Yet he has posted novice-like questions seeking help identifying fairly mainstream card issues (mainstream within the hobby, at least), which players are common players and a myriad of other questions — all to help run a business in which he says he’s an expert.

So, yes, after months of this practice, anger was directed at him. That’s far different than a collector asking about the nuances of the T206 set or what constitutes Ty Cobb’s rookie card. I don’t remember those types of genuine questions drawing a negative response on the board.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by BRoberts

Can we please be clear about something? What prompted this thread by the OP was a couple negative posts about his practice of continually posting questions and publicizing *his business*. This is not a collector seeking information in order to enjoy the hobby more, which seems to be the premise of most of the responses in this thread.

Jeff Gross professes on his website to be an expert about baseball cards. So much so that he can sell your cards for upwards of 25 percent more “than traditional sales options.” Yet he has posted novice-like questions seeking help identifying fairly mainstream card issues (mainstream within the hobby, at least), which players are common players and a myriad of other questions — all to help run a business in which he says he’s an expert.

So, yes, after months of this practice, anger was directed at him. That’s far different than a collector asking about the nuances of the T206 set or what constitutes Ty Cobb’s rookie card. I don’t remember those types of genuine questions drawing a negative response on the board.

You have stated the issue here well. The issue in my opinion is not the questions per se, it's the context. If you just read the website, you would think Jeff is an elite veteran seller, someone like -- I don't know, just to pick a name at random -- a Steve Verkman.

Edited to add a screenshot for the record.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

You have stated the issue here well. The issue in my opinion is not the questions per se, it's the context. If you just read the website, you would think Jeff is an elite veteran seller, someone like -- I don't know, just to pick a name at random -- a Steve Verkman.

Peter, I think some want an edge to undercut the auction houses so they figure they can make a website they can make a story they can get a hit. It’s all about competition nobody in the business, nobody is looking out for the other guy in business. Now as for the collectors, absolutely we are looking out for other collectors, which is a major positive. ��

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

Peter, I think some want an edge to undercut the auction houses so they figure they can make a website they can make a story they can get a hit. It’s all about competition nobody in the business, is say looking out for the other guy in business. Now as for the collectors, absolutely we are looking out for other collectors, which is a major positive. ��

John, sure, but does that justify saying things if they are not grounded in reality?

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by BRoberts

Can we please be clear about something? What prompted this thread by the OP was a couple negative posts about his practice of continually posting questions and publicizing *his business*. This is not a collector seeking information in order to enjoy the hobby more, which seems to be the premise of most of the responses in this thread.

Jeff Gross professes on his website to be an expert about baseball cards. So much so that he can sell your cards for upwards of 25 percent more “than traditional sales options.” Yet he has posted novice-like questions seeking help identifying fairly mainstream card issues (mainstream within the hobby, at least), which players are common players and a myriad of other questions — all to help run a business in which he says he’s an expert.

So, yes, after months of this practice, anger was directed at him. That’s far different than a collector asking about the nuances of the T206 set or what constitutes Ty Cobb’s rookie card. I don’t remember those types of genuine questions drawing a negative response on the board.

I wrote something similar to Jeff when he had sent me a PM after I made a comment he did not like on one of his threads. When I tried to explain he immediately got really pissed with me. I think all of us do better in life if we can self-reflect.

[Kutcher55]

Indeed the hypocrisy and then plays the victim card when people have the audacity to call him out for the complete lack of self awareness.

[refz]

I’m surprised this took so long, I figured this would have been called out sooner.

I’m going to hijack this thread a little bit. For all you haters out there, I now have PayPal. I had an extraordinarily amount of flak on my posts for not having that service and only using Venmo. ��

[aelefson]

Bill and others said it very well. Jeff should review his interactions on this board and be able to see where he was in the wrong. I have been privately frustrated by his claim of vast knowledge and experience despite seeing him post basic questions. If it happened once or twice, that might be different, but I am glad he was called out for it as this appears to be a pattern.

Alan

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

John, sure, but does that justify saying things if they are not grounded in reality?

No, it doesn’t. I would say, though if it sounds too good to be true it probably is too good to be true. A lot of these guys in the card business embellish and BS all kinds of stuff about making the most getting the most bidders.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

Peter, I think some want an edge to undercut the auction houses so they figure they can make a website they can make a story they can get a hit. It’s all about competition nobody in the business, nobody is looking out for the other guy in business. Now as for the collectors, absolutely we are looking out for other collectors, which is a major positive. ��

On the business side I would argue that there are a number of guys in the business who have gone out of their way to be helpful to me. I think we let the negatives impact our consciousness much more than we recall the positives.

[Belfast1933]

Ok, so messages received… loud and clear. Believe me, I am listening. Lots to reflect on. And I can promise you, I already am.

Jeff

[parkplace33]

Originally Posted by Belfast1933

Ok, so messages received… loud and clear. Believe me, I am listening. Lots to reflect on. And I can promise you, I already am.

Jeff

Jeff, I hope you aren’t like some older members and will stop posting. Try to enjoy the hobby and don’t let others get you down.

Members on this board don’t like new things, period. They relish in the “good old days”. Well folks, the good old days weren’t always good, they were just old. I love when we see new and improved ways of doing things, looking at things, etc.

[JollyElm]

Since there is so much anger here, let's take it the other way. The Gross-man's response is a beautiful example of class.
That is really nice to see. Well done!

[raulus]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

John, sure, but does that justify saying things if they are not grounded in reality?

I believe the legal term is puffery!

But I suppose there’s puffery and gross puffery. And maybe some of the claims on the gross website are a bit gross that way.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by raulus

I believe the legal term is puffery!

But I suppose there’s puffery and gross puffery. And maybe some of the claims on the gross website are a bit gross that way.

LOL. Actually there is a lot of nuance in securities law about the line between puffery and misrepresentation.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by G1911

Your website selling your services says you have "unmatched knowledge" of vintage baseball cards. Surely you can identify common players.

This is the post OP had to make a new thread to whine about while dodging that it is about his blatantly false representations of himself and his business. If anything I greatly understated the gap between his posts here needing help with the basics of old cards and his claims to be the leading expert on vintage baseball cards who nets 15-25% more than the market leaders via his unique connections and 3 decades of alleged industry experience.

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by raulus

I believe the legal term is puffery!

But I suppose there’s puffery and gross puffery. And maybe some of the claims on the gross website are a bit gross that way.

I prefer "Gross Negligence " but I see what you did there

[Casey2296]

I think Jeff gets the point, he’s taken the constructive criticism positively which is all you can ask.
Time to show a little grace imho.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

I think Jeff gets the point, he’s taken the constructive criticism positively which is all you can ask.
Time to show a little grace imho.

It remains to be seen how he will edit his website.