T213

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Posted By: rob

It is difficult to find much info on this series. It appears scarce, but does that necessarily mean its more valuable? How does a Ty Cobb compare from this series to say the T206 (assuming the same condition)?

I have a few cards from the 3 series and am trying to gain insight as to how valuable they may be...naturally the condition is critical, but I am trying to get a gauge compared to other series.

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Posted By: Craig

As you suspected scarcity doen't equal demand.
High grade hofers such as Cobb, Matty, And Johnson have sold at major auctions for fractions of what similarly graded t206s sell for.
For example a Cobb red portrait in psa 9 sold for under 10k in the April Mastro auction. You couldn't pick up a psa 8 t206 Cobb for that price.

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Posted By: Robert A

As far as how these cards sell on ebay, I feel that over the past several years that T213 cobbs (for example) have brought very similar prices to t206 cobbs if the cards are lowgrade (fair to vg) and the t206 doesn't have an uncommon back.

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Posted By: rob gutheil

How about the backs of these cards...is there any value to an overprint? Are there any cards in this series that are heavily sought?

are there any good sources to look up info on this series or is it simply websites like these?

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Posted By: leon

I think all of the sub sets of T213 are undervalued relative to their scarcity. The market is fairly well mature so in reality they are not undervalued....or they would sell for more. The T213-3 overprints are very rare. I just picked up my second one and I think there is only about a handful known.....take care

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Posted By: rob gutheil

my cards are good-fair condition I would say, I am a novice collector with only a few cards. I appreciate all your feedback, I also know that I have at least 3 overprints I would say. Do you have any feel as to their value. Say a non - hall of famer, HOF and a Cobb. I would have to check what I have, but I know I have a mcgraw.

sorry for such "rookie" questions, but this is a very difficult set to research.

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Posted By: Ben

Hi Rob,

I got your email and thought that it might be best to post my answer here. The T213 set is actually made up of three distinct issues, which is why you will see them commonly referred to as t213-1, t213-2, t213-3. You can distinguish between the three by their back advertisements.

T213-1: "Coupon" (mild) Cigarettes
T213-2: mild and sweet, Coupon cigarettes, 20 for 5 cents
T213-3: Coupon cigarettes, 16 for 10 cents, mild and sweet

While there is consensus that t213-2 is the most common of the three, I have heard mixed messages about the relative rarity of the other two. My personal belief is that type 3's are the rarest. Also, type 3's are the only series that contains the overprints, which is just a little black bar across the factory/district #'s on the bottom of the back.

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Posted By: Ben

Looking back at your first post, it dawned on me that you probably know all the stuff I just said about the three series. It's tough to guage the value of your cards without seeing scans, but if they are type 3's, my guess is that you'll get a significantly better price than what you'd normally see for a type 2. As for the overprints, well, they seem to sell for ALOT more. I'm sure you'll be able to find several interested buyers right here on net 54.

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Posted By: Mark

I wonder why rarity does not make T213s more valuable when rarity seems to drive the price of T214s like this SGC 30: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=31718&item=5143425006&rd=1

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Posted By: Robert A

"The subjects for Coupons are the same photos used for T206. This has greatly diminished T213's popularity..." from Lew Lipset's Encyclopedia of Baseball Cards Volume 3

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Posted By: Dan Koteles

Also, the type 2 & 3 come in blue letter at the bottom and type 1, just like the t206's.

A far as level of scarcity, I guess it is how many has each one of us owned. I just had gotten my first type 1's about 2 weeks ago and have owned 10 -15 type 3's over the years. Of course it is not based on my cards , but how do you find the balance to answer this .

The type 2 is easily much scarcer than the t205 and t206's and for that matter many of the caramels as well- I havent heard of a full set , but... i never have pursued them at any urgency. I do like em thoguh ! Good Evening

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Posted By: warshawlaw

I personally think that they look nicer than their T206 counterparts if their surfaces are not too checkered, and they are much harder to find. I have seen them selling for about the same as to T206 cards for the major stars. I picked up a Cobb for about what I'd have expected to pay for a T206 in similar condition.

I suspect that rarity breeds obscurity with these.

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Posted By: Andy Cook

I am working on a T213-2 set and have owned a couple dozen type 1s and 3s. I think the 1s and 3s are both much tougher than the common type 2s. I had probably half a dozen type 3s with the overprint, so they are tough, but not significantly tougher than a non-overprint type 3. As for type 2, this set could be a post by itself. I am 40 cards short of a set and I know of two people who are closer, but I don't know of any complete sets and frankly I don't think several of the cards on the commonly accepted checklist exist. There are close to two dozen type 2s which are significantly more difficult than other type 2s, and easily on a rarity level of type 1s and 3s. By the way, if anyone has any of these type 2s, I'll trade or buy for them. I have a bunch of dupes.
Thanks,
Andy

T213-2 wantlist (any condition although caption must be fully readable)
Bender(trees-Balt,PhilNat;notrees-Balt, PhilNat) Bradley Brown(Chicago) Collins(Philadephia) Crandall(StLouis Nat) Demmitt(NY) Donlin(NY) Doolan(Chicagobat) Dunn Gandil(Cleveland) Herzog(noBshirt) Jordan(Toronto) Lajoie(Philadelphia) Magee(Phila) Marquard(Brooklynpitch) Mathewson McQuillan(Phila,Philadelphia) Meyers(NYfield) Mullin(Newark) Murray(Chicago) Oldring(Phila) Reulbach(Brooklyn Fed) Rucker(Brooklyn Nat) Schaefer(KC Fed) Sweeney(Richmond) Tinker(Natbaton,Fedbatoff) Wheat(Brooklyn) Wiltse(Brooklyn-pitch,port)

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Posted By: leon

I have only seen about 50-100 type 3's in my short (late) career of card collecting. Of those I have only seen about 4 of the overprints. You seem to say they are not that much tougher than non-overprint (Factory 8) ones. From the other hobby veterans I have spoken to this isn't the case....or maybe I am just not talking to hardcore T213 collectors? You really don't think they're that scarce? later

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Posted By: rob gutheil

Andy, I have a T213 series 2 Donlin (I only have 3 from that series and that happens to be one)...I started this topic and am grealty appreciative of all the feedback, turns out I have about 10 of the overprint T213 3 series, I guess even a blind squirrel finds a nut someday...sounds like they are pretty rare.

I can scan you a copy of Donlin, not sure how to do it on this posting though...I would be intereted in series 3 overprints if you had any, that seems to be where my collection is starting. Happy to hear other thoughts as well.

rob




figured it out

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Posted By: warshawlaw

I had no idea about that. Any others with stats or notes on the front??

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Posted By: tbob

I was one of the 3 buyers of the "Southern Find of Coupons". I eventually sold my near set of T213-3s to Bill Mastro and have always regretted it. I also sold him a ton of T213-2s. The price then was miniscule compared to today. Most cards were EXMT.
Two things about the T213-3s: many are factory cut shorter than T213-2s and thus occassionally they will not grade, rejected for "trimming" which is ridiculous. The 80+ year old man who owned the cards (around a thousand) had them since 1914 and 1919 when they were produced. They were NOT trimmed.
second regarding the overprinted T213-3s, we had probably 500 with 8-9 Cobbs (sigh) and of the 500 there were 3 overprinted backs: a Cobb which I had graded by SGC and sold on ebay a long time ago to a poster here, a McGraw which I have kept (only one) and one more, a common. Yes, I would say the overprints are rare.

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Posted By: rob

This is the first difference I have seen between the fronts of the T206 and the T213, that is the bottom of the Donlin, very interesting...That is the only one I have with writing, are there others?

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Posted By: Robert A

Never seen the stats on the bottom of t213s like that.
I want one!

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Posted By: Andy Cook

The Donlin is the only type 2 with stats on the front. There are lots of type 2s that have caption changes from the T206s -- many, many team changes including Federal Leagues and Minors. On the type 3 overprints, I didn't find them more difficult than the non-overprints. However, any type 3 is relatively difficult. For some reason they were relatively plentiful in the late 90s, but they seem much scarcer now.

Andy

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Posted By: tbob

I sold a Fair T213-2 Donlin with stats on the front ERROR card on ebay a while back that had Donlin's name misspelled. I think they mixed it up with Dooin. Probably one of bought it. It didn't go for that much then, bet it would go for a bundle now.

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Posted By: Rhys

If any of you want to sell your "dime a dozen" T213-3 overprints to me right now I will take all you have. Since they are no scarcer than regular T213-3 cards according to some of you.

I have seen on ebay/shows/websites etc... Several hundred T213-3 cards in the last 15 years, especially if you include ebay. I have seen 4 overprints, 2 on ebay and handled 2. This ratio seems to go pretty close to TBOB's estimate. For everyone who has been lucky enough to find one of these overprints, there are many many people who have never even seen one.

I would invite all who wish to unload these cards at regular T213-3 prices to e mail me.

Rhys

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Posted By: leon

I have an extra Bender overprint but he wouldn't be cheap.....but Rhys and Rhett know that......I know this isn't the B/S/T thread however since it was posed here I thought I would answer here...(btw, I have only personally seen 2-3 as I said before)...later