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T227 Series of Champions Enigma
Hey All!
I am working on a lifetime project to complete this set. The cards were issued with Honest Long Cut and Miners Extra, from what I read they were included in scrap or chewing tobacco pouches and that is why they are hard to find in good condition. Looks like they were issued in 1912. the back of the cards show a series of 25 in the set however only 24 have been identified (checklist below). I saw on the non sports side there have been some ATC ledgers showing date of issue and checklists of some other non sports T card sets. Has anyone seen the same for this set? Any guesses as to whom the 25th card is or was supposed to be? thanks for any assistance! Cliff 1912 Honest Long Cut & Miners Extra Tobacco (T227) - Series of Champions (24) CARD NO. CARD NAME SPORT 1 BRUCE BROWN AUTO RACING 2 RALPH MULFORD AUTO RACING 3 C.P. RODGERS (CALBRAITH) AVIATION 4 HOME RUN BAKER BASEBALL 5 CHIEF BENDER BASEBALL 6 TY COBB BASEBALL 7 RICHARD MARQUARD BASEBALL 8 ALFRED DE ORO BILLIARDS 9 WILLIE HOPPE BILLIARDS 10 ABE ATELL BOXING 11 JOHNNY COULON BOXING 12 JACK JOHNSON BOXING 13 FRANK KLAUS BOXING 14 AD. WOLGAST BOXING 15 HAROLD HILTON GOLF 16 JACK MCDERMOTT GOLF 17 ESS H. KAY HORSE RACING 18 UHLAN HORSE RACING 19 DIXIE V BOATING 20 BUDD GOODWIN SWIMMING 21 W.J. KRAMER TRACK & FIELD 22 MATT MCGRATH TRACK & FIELD 23 MELVIN SHEPPARD TRACK & FIELD 24 C. ZBYSZKO WRESTLING
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T201 Master Set - COMPLETE !!! F30 (50/50) F649 (50/50) "Mecca - Perfect Satisfaction" T206 Back Set - 37/38 T227 Series of Champions Master Set 45/48 1948 Bowman - Baseball & Football (upgrading) |
#2
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Are you sure there are 25 cards? It's quite possible only 24 were made: 8x3 or 4x6 printing sheets would make sense, but then so would 5x5.
I see the writing says "25 Designs", but this was also the timeframe where some cards were omitted from being released/printed in order to get more sales for those chasing a complete set or attempting to redeem for a prize (box of chocolates/ice skates). PSA has only graded 24 different cards, and you would think if anyone had the other, they would get it cataloged or added to the PSA registry. http://www.psacard.com/psasetregistr...te.aspx?c=6066 PSA, FWIW, only counts this set as having 24 cards. 100% completion for 24 required items.
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-- PWCC: The Fish Stinks From the Head PSA: Regularly Get Cheated BGS: Can't detect trimming on modern SGC: Closed auto authentication business JSA: Approved same T206 Autos before SGC Oh, what a difference a year makes. |
#3
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T227
Charles Bray allowed me to photocopy his checklist back in the day and he had the same 24 on his checklist, but in the margin is written the name - Whelan (trotter). It looks more like my notation and not his. I don't have the card, and I can't remember where I came up with name. Hope this helps a little. John
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#4
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Joe Jackson?
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#5
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Hey Cliff,
There are other early non sports sets that advertise more cards than actually exist. E26 Menagerie comes to mind with Prairie Dog and Wild Boar on the back of the card, but not actually printed. Although it's interesting what John posted above. If there is a 25th card out there, I'm sure it would be an obscure subject. Good luck with your set. Rob |
#6
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I think they are one of the most beautiful set made. Great, unique images, and detailed write-ups on back. Coulon (boxer, Bantamweight champ 1908-14, 5'0", ~110 lbs.) is my favorite, is stunning in it's simplicity. The wild-smiling Mulford (last to win the off track races, Savannah, and first to win on track, Indy), is also a fav.
No expert, by far, but agree it's a 24 card set. Bruce Brown (auto) seems to be the hardest to find. |
#7
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I just found this thread as I was searching about the Ralph Mulford on Google. Curious to find out how your project is coming along.
-Kin Quote:
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T36 (1911 ATC Auto Drivers): 25/25 100% complete T36 Master set: 69/100 69% complete T210 Fort Worth Panthers: 14/16 88% complete (need Morris & Weatherford) T206/T213 Scoops Carey back run: 4/4 !00% complete Focus: open wheel/Indy 500 cards (1911 ATC Auto Drivers (T36), 1954 Stark & Wetzel 500 Winners, 1960 Parkhurst Indy Speedway Winners & 1960s Marhoefer Indy 500), match books & post cards. Successful purchases from dnanln, pre1960sets, jp1216 & sebie43; RAKs from CW & LuckyLarry |
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Perhaps one of my saddest collecting days, although I didn't know it at the time, was when I sold my T227 Cobb PSA 6 for an embarrassing small amount, and if that wasn't bad enough I also sold the PSA 7 Baker, now up in the REA auction, for a likewise relative pittance. That card, I must say, is in a league of its own in such a condition sensitive issue not only among the 4 ballplayers but the entire set. Not sure if I am going to try to recapture it, but who knows.
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#9
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When did you sell them? Based on context, I'm assuming before the "boom" in the prices of vintage graded sales over the last 2-3 years.
Quote:
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T36 (1911 ATC Auto Drivers): 25/25 100% complete T36 Master set: 69/100 69% complete T210 Fort Worth Panthers: 14/16 88% complete (need Morris & Weatherford) T206/T213 Scoops Carey back run: 4/4 !00% complete Focus: open wheel/Indy 500 cards (1911 ATC Auto Drivers (T36), 1954 Stark & Wetzel 500 Winners, 1960 Parkhurst Indy Speedway Winners & 1960s Marhoefer Indy 500), match books & post cards. Successful purchases from dnanln, pre1960sets, jp1216 & sebie43; RAKs from CW & LuckyLarry |
#10
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Sold them in 2005 after I had moved to London and closed down Full Count. I consigned them to long-time friend Kevin Struss, who was then at Mastro's. where they were eventually auctioned off.
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#11
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set quest update
Hey Kin,
thanks for the post, I am doing well on my set quest, now down to needing two cards: CARD NO. CARD NAME SPORT 1 BRUCE BROWN AUTO RACING 3 C.P. RODGERS (CALBRAITH) AVIATION These are hard to find. I'll be heading to the National to see if I can dig these up. If anyone has them and willing to sell, LET ME KNOW! super set, scored a nice Cobby from a fellow member. two more to go! no updates on the "missing" 25th card yet. TTYL! Cliff
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T201 Master Set - COMPLETE !!! F30 (50/50) F649 (50/50) "Mecca - Perfect Satisfaction" T206 Back Set - 37/38 T227 Series of Champions Master Set 45/48 1948 Bowman - Baseball & Football (upgrading) |
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yoda don't feel bad we all have done crazy things ,,at least you can say you owned them at one time ,,,ive done some pretty crazy deals too .best octavio
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#13
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It's the card version of "better to have loved and lost than never loved at all."
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T36 (1911 ATC Auto Drivers): 25/25 100% complete T36 Master set: 69/100 69% complete T210 Fort Worth Panthers: 14/16 88% complete (need Morris & Weatherford) T206/T213 Scoops Carey back run: 4/4 !00% complete Focus: open wheel/Indy 500 cards (1911 ATC Auto Drivers (T36), 1954 Stark & Wetzel 500 Winners, 1960 Parkhurst Indy Speedway Winners & 1960s Marhoefer Indy 500), match books & post cards. Successful purchases from dnanln, pre1960sets, jp1216 & sebie43; RAKs from CW & LuckyLarry |
#14
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Quote:
I did the exact same thing with my Cobb in 1991. It would probably have graded a 1 or 2, but it had great eye-appeal. I've been looking for a replacement for several years now, but haven't been able to land it Regarding the CP Rodgers card; I've been looking for one of them for several years also, as I collect aviator cards. I have yet to see even one card for sale anywhere. Steve
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Successful BST deals with eliotdeutsch, gonzo, jimivintage, Leon, lharris3600, markf31, Mrc32, sb1, seablaster, shammus, veloce. Current Wantlist: 1909 Obak Howard (Los Angeles) (no frame on back) 1910 E90-2 Gibson, Hyatt, Maddox |
#15
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I was fortunate enough to get the Brown in a collection and Rodgers in a trade with HLC backs. The other Rodgers I know about is an HLC. However, I do not know if there is a Miners Extra Brown and Rodgers that exist.
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#16
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It's definitely disconcerting to find that the Brown is so difficult to find and that y'all need it for the set. It's one of only two cards in the set I want to acquire and it's now obvious that if/when one comes available, it's going to go for much more than any of us would like to pay.
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T36 (1911 ATC Auto Drivers): 25/25 100% complete T36 Master set: 69/100 69% complete T210 Fort Worth Panthers: 14/16 88% complete (need Morris & Weatherford) T206/T213 Scoops Carey back run: 4/4 !00% complete Focus: open wheel/Indy 500 cards (1911 ATC Auto Drivers (T36), 1954 Stark & Wetzel 500 Winners, 1960 Parkhurst Indy Speedway Winners & 1960s Marhoefer Indy 500), match books & post cards. Successful purchases from dnanln, pre1960sets, jp1216 & sebie43; RAKs from CW & LuckyLarry |
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