Are cards with older PSA cases worth less?

[hockeyhockey]

still kind of new to the grading thing, but figured i'd ask the experts here - are cards in older cases worth less money in your eyes? i'm constantly trying to determine market value and that's one thing i always wondered. like, why would a PSA 8 of the same exact card go for a lot more money than another one (barring some big difference with the actual card)?

[JollyElm]

I'd have to give a definitive yes to your overall question. However, there are caveats involved. You could always resubmit the card for reholdering (for whatever the fee is) and POOF!! now it's in a new holder and 'worth more.' Many claim that PSA's standards were lacking back then, so cards received higher grades than they should have and would these days. For me, personally, it seems PSA hammered so many undeserving cards with 'PD' qualifiers. They were certainly heavy-handed in that regard. The possible good news is, if a seller believes his card in an old slab is worth less (but looks pretty sweet to you), you may be able to pick it up at a bargain price.

[Gary Dunaier]

In the world of coin collecting, older third-party slabs have become collectible themselves.

Collectors keep loving slabs. Third-party grading has brought enhanced transparency, liquidity and confidence to the rare coin market. Perhaps in recognition of this, collectors covet rare encapsulations from grading firms, especially Professional Coin Grading Service and Numismatic Guaranty Corp., and these unusual slabs have become collectibles in their own rights.

Complete article: How coin holders have become collectibles, Coin World, 10/25/16.

[hockeyhockey]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

I'd have to give a definitive yes to your overall question. However, there are caveats involved. You could always resubmit the card for reholdering (for whatever the fee is) and POOF!! now it's in a new holder and 'worth more.' Many claim that PSA's standards were lacking back then, so cards received higher grades than they should have and would these days. For me, personally, it seems PSA hammered so many undeserving cards with 'PD' qualifiers. They were certainly heavy-handed in that regard. The possible good news is, if a seller believes his card in an old slab is worth less (but looks pretty sweet to you), you may be able to pick it up at a bargain price.

that's really the interesting thing about it - send the old slab to PSA and for $10, all is now new. it's all so bizarre. i've learned to be better about looking at the actual card vs the grade.

i have a few old SGC slabs of really nice cards, and was considering popping them out and re-submitting. not sure if that makes a lot of sense, but i do think some of them may be undergraded.

[jbsports33]

Really all depends on what the card or item is - grade, how the card looks, population. Let's not forget about the half grades as well, many of the older holders may not have been looked at for a bump in grade. Another factor someday with be if the card was the first card graded, or if the high grade is more important the first 9 or 10. Lot of different ways to look at this! In general though, many could be worth less depending how they may have graded earlier compared to today.

You also may want to switch this post to the main board that covers cards!

Happy Collecting!

Jimmy

[benjulmag]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

I'd have to give a definitive yes to your overall question. However, there are caveats involved. You could always resubmit the card for reholdering (for whatever the fee is) and POOF!! now it's in a new holder and 'worth more.' Many claim that PSA's standards were lacking back then, so cards received higher grades than they should have and would these days. For me, personally, it seems PSA hammered so many undeserving cards with 'PD' qualifiers. They were certainly heavy-handed in that regard. The possible good news is, if a seller believes his card in an old slab is worth less (but looks pretty sweet to you), you may be able to pick it up at a bargain price.

As someone who has no experience submitting cards for grading, I am unfamiliar with how the process works. Are you saying that if you have a card slabbed by PSA, say 15 years ago, and graded an 8, that for nominal cost you can send the card back and it have it returned in their newest holder WITH NO LESS THAN THE SAME GRADE, regardless if the card by current grading standards merits that grade?

If that it how it works, and assuming the cost is truly nominal, why would a collector who is thinking of selling not do that? Or is the way the system works that in order to be re-slabbed at the same grade the card must by current grading standards deserve that grade? And if it does, is the fee nominal or would it be the same fee one would pay in submitting a raw card?

[swarmee]

Much cheaper fees than ones being graded. Retains the cert number, so you can tell it's still an older grade though.
They used to reholder when you paid for a review (if you asked nicely), but they quit doing that a few years back. Cards reholdered at some levels now also get scanned and those images loaded onto psacard.com as part of the fee as well.

Plenty of reasons why people don't: expense, time lag, possibility of PSA saying the holder is cracked and has to be regraded. Some would also be worried about it getting damaged in PSA's hands or lost in the mail.

Add: very rare that PSA would downgrade a card during a reholder submission, it would have to be drastic like they see evidence of alteration, writing that didn't get a mark, or was actually counterfeit. But they'd also have to pay out on the grade guarantee.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by swarmee

Much cheaper fees than ones being graded. Retains the cert number, so you can tell it's still an older grade though.
They used to reholder when you paid for a review (if you asked nicely), but they quit doing that a few years back. Cards reholdered at some levels now also get scanned and those images loaded onto psacard.com as part of the fee as well.

Plenty of reasons why people don't: expense, time lag, possibility of PSA saying the holder is cracked and has to be regraded. Some would also be worried about it getting damaged in PSA's hands or lost in the mail.

Add: very rare that PSA would downgrade a card during a reholder submission, it would have to be drastic like they see evidence of alteration, writing that didn't get a mark, or was actually counterfeit. But they'd also have to pay out on the grade guarantee.

So do you think that if Kendrick submitted the sheet-cut Honus Wagner to be re-holdered, PSA might assign it the proper grade of "A"

[swarmee]

Originally Posted by perezfan

So do you think that if Kendrick submitted the sheet-cut Honus Wagner to be re-holdered, PSA might assign it the proper grade of "A"

Nope; people who ask PSA that question get banned. Steve Sloan and Joe Orlando have a real bug in their butt about 00000001.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by swarmee

Much cheaper fees than ones being graded. Retains the cert number, so you can tell it's still an older grade though.
They used to reholder when you paid for a review (if you asked nicely), but they quit doing that a few years back. Cards reholdered at some levels now also get scanned and those images loaded onto psacard.com as part of the fee as well.

Plenty of reasons why people don't: expense, time lag, possibility of PSA saying the holder is cracked and has to be regraded. Some would also be worried about it getting damaged in PSA's hands or lost in the mail.

Add: very rare that PSA would downgrade a card during a reholder submission, it would have to be drastic like they see evidence of alteration, writing that didn't get a mark, or was actually counterfeit. But they'd also have to pay out on the grade guarantee.

Wouldn't they just send the submitter back to whoever they bought it from?

That way they can dodge responsibility, "review" the card and say it's fine and really have no responsibility.

[swarmee]

Originally Posted by steve B

Wouldn't they just send the submitter back to whoever they bought it from?

That way they can dodge responsibility, "review" the card and say it's fine and really have no responsibility.

Yeah, but the previous seller could tell them to pound sand, and PSA would have to pay out. Think of all the PSA 10 1986 Fleer Michael Jordans that Robert Block trimmed and got into PSA holders. Now that they're $750K cards, PSA has a much larger chance at having to pay out. I think just one of those would clear out their reserve. Wonder how their stock would react if 5-10 of the owners of Robert Block MJs sent them all back at the same time?

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

I'd have to give a definitive yes to your overall question. However, there are caveats involved. You could always resubmit the card for reholdering (for whatever the fee is) and POOF!! now it's in a new holder and 'worth more.' Many claim that PSA's standards were lacking back then, so cards received higher grades than they should have and would these days.

Their “standards” are still lacking.

[hcv123]

It's about the card that's in the holder. The question and answer both serve to highlight the fact that 3rd party grading has been subject to levels of significant inconsistency. I recall early on getting some cards graded and comparing them to other cards of the same grade and seeing clear differences back when. I don't know whether PSA used to be lax or now they are too harsh, but grading today is definitely different.
It has been discussed multiple times on the boards - BUY THE CARD NOT THE HOLDER. There are over/under graded cards in old holders and in new ones. As a general rule I look more carefully at cards in older holders as there tend to be more that I find that imo I would call over graded.

[JustinD]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

I'd have to give a definitive yes to your overall question. However, there are caveats involved. You could always resubmit the card for reholdering (for whatever the fee is) and POOF!! now it's in a new holder and 'worth more.' Many claim that PSA's standards were lacking back then, so cards received higher grades than they should have and would these days. For me, personally, it seems PSA hammered so many undeserving cards with 'PD' qualifiers. They were certainly heavy-handed in that regard. The possible good news is, if a seller believes his card in an old slab is worth less (but looks pretty sweet to you), you may be able to pick it up at a bargain price.

Agreed.

[Snowman]

I've been collecting data in an attempt to quantify this. It'll take a while for me to finish it (as I have little spare time), but what I've noticed is that it's really more the serial number than it is the holder itself (though they are highly correlated). The early serial numbers are almost all overgraded. There are exceptions obviously, as variance existed back then just as it does today, but the variance today is quite a bit wider than it was in the early days (which makes sense as they have a lot more graders today than they did back then). But the grade deltas aren't just 0.5 or 1 point off, they are often 2 full grades higher with early serials, and even sometimes upwards of 2.5 or 3 grades off (though that's rare). Putting a card like that into a new lighthouse slab might fool a few newer buyers, but it isn't going to fool the majority of collectors who are going to look at the card itself and make their own judgment.

I'm also working on a PSA serial number decoder algorithm to estimate when the card was graded. But cliff notes are that yes, early slabs/serials are absolutely worth less on average, and often times much, much less. This is more true for high-end cards than it is with set building commons since the set builders often care more about the grade than they do the card. But for guys like Ruth, Mantle, Mays, Jackie, Cobb, etc. it matters A LOT.

[Carter08]

Originally Posted by Snowman

I've been collecting data in an attempt to quantify this. It'll take a while for me to finish it (as I have little spare time), but what I've noticed is that it's really more the serial number than it is the holder itself (though they are highly correlated). The early serial numbers are almost all overgraded. There are exceptions obviously, as variance existed back then just as it does today, but the variance today is quite a bit wider than it was in the early days (which makes sense as they have a lot more graders today than they did back then). But the grade deltas aren't just 0.5 or 1 point off, they are often 2 full grades higher with early serials, and even sometimes upwards of 2.5 or 3 grades off (though that's rare). Putting a card like that into a new lighthouse slab might fool a few newer buyers, but it isn't going to fool the majority of collectors who are going to look at the card itself and make their own judgment.

I'm also working on a PSA serial number decoder algorithm to estimate when the card was graded. But cliff notes are that yes, early slabs/serials are absolutely worth less on average, and often times much, much less. This is more true for high-end cards than it is with set building commons since the set builders often care more about the grade than they do the card. But for guys like Ruth, Mantle, Mays, Jackie, Cobb, etc. it matters A LOT.

I think this just correlated generally - with definite exceptions - that an earlier cert number was a looser grading system than later cert numbers, particularly ones that start with a 6. Essentially people still pay for the card and not the holder but the more recent cert numbers tend to have nicer cards at the same
grade. Again, plenty of exceptions to the rule.

[Johnny630]

In Memory Lane’s Current Auction there are two 1953 Topps Cards for sale in PSA 8 grades with very old serial numbers. A 1953 Mantle and a Mays both are doing phenomenal so far, the Mays if it ended right now would be a new record sale for in a PSA 8 grade.
I’m going to stick with each card is different regardless of when it was graded.
Just my opinion. I guess a better question would be if one came up in an old serial number but the card looked great and you wanted the card for your collection would it matter to you as long as the card in your eye was graded properly? I would in a heartbeat, like the 53 Mays PSA 8 in the above auction.

[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by hockeyhockey

still kind of new to the grading thing, but figured i'd ask the experts here - are cards in older cases worth less money in your eyes?

For those who collect plastic cases instead of cards, then i would guess the answer is...

Doug "none of my cards have plastic cases" Goodman