1947 BOND BREAD and its "imposters"....show us your cards ?

[Archive]

Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

It was the Summer of '47....my sister and I carefully opened up Homogenized Bond Bread packages, for a Joe DiMaggio, a Ted Williams,
a Stan Musial, or the new rookie sensation....a Jackie Robinson BB card. Our Mom couldn't buy enough of the Bond Bread loafs. So, we
had our Dad buying Bond Bread for his restaurant and our Aunt buying Bond Bread. In the Fall of 1947, we experienced one of the most
exciting World Series ever played. 1947 was a tremendous year for BB, and a great start for me in the wonderful life-long hobby of col-
lecting BB cards. These B/W cards were really popular with the kids in our neighborhood. By trading & sharing our collections with each
other, we eventually realized that there were no more than 44 BB players and 4 Boxers in a complete set.


1947 Homogenized BOND BREAD wrapper






Many cards in this set are the very 1st (or rookie) cards issued of the players. Shown here are the 1st cards of Yogi Berra, Stan Musial,
Jackie Pobinson, Gil Hodges, Ralph Kiner and Bobby Thomson.





This set has been the source of much confusion in the hobby for many years. The only true 1947 Bond Bread cards are these 48 in this
general set and the Jackie Robinson set. All of which have beveled (or ROUNDED) corners in order to fit into the bread loaf packages.
Unfortunately, other issues that resemble the Bond Bread cards that were issued after 1947 and were never packaged in Bond Bread loafs
have been mis-identified as "1947 Bond Bread" cards. Grading Co. have been most guilty of erroneously labeling these SQUARE "imposters".

Shown here are two cards from the 1949 (unknown) issue which includes 24 of the BB players depicted in the 1947 Bond Bread issue and
an additional BB player (or 2). Also, many of the popular Movie Stars of that era were included. These cards may have been printed by the
same firm that printed the 1947 set. However, their SQUARE corners and their inferior cardboard stock belie the fact that these cards are
NOT related to the "1947 Bond Bread" issue.
A recent find of many of these SQUARE cards (BB and Movie Stars) suggest a 1949 issue date since Walker Cooper is depicted in this col-
lection as a NY Giant (Cooper was traded to Cinci in the Summer of '49).


1949 (unknown) issue






A 1947 Bond Bread Team/checklist will follow in the next post here.


TED Z

[iggyman]

Before I begin, let me state that this is an old thread (from early 2009........I can still remember that year as though it was yesterday....).


This is for prosperity and for Ted Z.... The following eBay item just ended:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=230415942970

It was for the complete 24 card '47 Bond Bread imposter cards/set (22 baseball + Joe Louis & Primo Carnera) which were unearthed by Dave Festberg. The seller stated he purchased the set in 1990 from B&J as noted in the SCD article. The card backs were the beige variety not the white version.

I passed on bidding on this item but was surprised to see it only sold for $102 (Nr/Mt set). I have always greatly appreciated everything I have learned (and continue learning) about this set from Ted Z., but at the end of his dissertations it always makes my head hurt. Plus, there is always the possibility that it is in fact a reprinted set. Guess, others feel the same way.

Lovely Day...

[doolittle1.1.1]

Originally Posted by iggyman

Before I begin, let me state that this is an old thread (from early 2009........I can still remember that year as though it was yesterday....).


This is for prosperity and for Ted Z.... The following eBay item just ended:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=230415942970

It was for the complete 24 card '47 Bond Bread imposter cards/set (22 baseball + Joe Louis & Primo Carnera) which were unearthed by Dave Festberg. The seller stated he purchased the set in 1990 from B&J as noted in the SCD article. The card backs were the beige variety not the white version.

I passed on bidding on this item but was surprised to see it only sold for $102 (Nr/Mt set). I have always greatly appreciated everything I have learned (and continue learning) about this set from Ted Z., but at the end of his dissertations it always makes my head hurt. Plus, there is always the possibility that it is in fact a reprinted set. Guess, others feel the same way.

Lovely Day...

I am with you on the head hurting and I just got into this a week ago. My cards truly were found in an old scrapbook I have from around Cleveland Indian World Series time (1948). All my neighborhood was collecting these cards, so I know they are original and not reprinted. My dilemma is why are the same pictures in the first set of 48 in my set of 24. Also, my picture of Vern Stephens is in a St Louis Browns uniform of 1947, and in 48 and later he played for Red Sox. In my eye, when I look at the back of my pics, they look white, considering the age.

[Exhibitman]

The fact that Stephens appears in a 1947 uniform in a later card is not an anachronism. If he'd been in a Red Sox uni it would disprove an issue date from before the trade.

[GasHouseGang]

As they say, "A picture is worth a thousand words". Since DiMaggio isn't supposed to be available with square corners, maybe you could take a pic of just that card.

[doolittle1.1.1]

Originally Posted by GasHouseGang

As they say, "A picture is worth a thousand words". Since DiMaggio isn't supposed to be available with square corners, maybe you could take a pic of just that card.

I posted the Di Maggio and just think, there are 11 more square corners...... this is too much fun,,,, I think that they think, that I am full of it.......The only thing that ruins this whole thing is the 10 year old that scotch taped the corners in the scrapbook... I am still hopeful my In Law can save these corners....

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by archive

posted by: ted zanidakis

it's my understanding that only 24 cards (22 bb and joe louis & primo carnera) were in the sets that dave festberg sold.
is this true for the set you have ?

you may be right about the cards in festburg's "find" not being "reprints"; however, illustrated here is the problem i have
with the "festburg cards".


.................1947 bond bread....................."1949 sports star subjects"

.................1947 bond bread.....................card from festburg "find"

backs


note the difference in the discolored cardboard of the festburg "find" card

furthermore, the two jansen cards and the 1947 bond bread stephens card are printed on thicker cardboard than the
square stephens card. Also, there is a higher printing quality (contrast) in two jansen cards and the 1947 bond bread
stephens card with respect to the stephens card of the festberg find.

Lee

Email me and I will discuss this further...... tedzan11@comcast.net

TED Z

[theshleps]

What do you think? Is it a 1947 or later
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1947-JACKIE-...item35d97b133a

[tedzan]

It looks like a 1947 from the BOND BREAD packages. All four corners appear to have a (partial) bevel. I say "partial" since the corner cuts
are not clean-cut.

I wish the seller would have shown the back of this card....in order for me to be certain that it is an original 1947.


TED Z

[Exhibitman]

Picked this up recently and it seems to be made by the same production people as the Bond etc. cards and related materials. It is the size of a commemorative postage stamp, blank backed, real photo.

[jasoneggert]

Originally Posted by theshleps

What do you think? Is it a 1947 or later
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1947-JACKIE-...item35d97b133a

Later

[revlis]

Thanks for the info. I like the idea of getting a "true" rookie card, might have to pick one of these up even if not as popular.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[doolittle1.1.1]

Need your help,, cannot send Bond Pictures (22) for verification. Even when I try to send email it says no no.Been at this for 2days and feel like IQ is 40 Minus that is

[doolittle1.1.1]

It almost looks like these rounded corners come from picture holders in those days. Mine all have what looks like scotch tape angled at the corners just like the picture holders. Your thoughts please... thank you, Douglas

[Bliggity]

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by doolittle1.1.1

It almost looks like these rounded corners come from picture holders in those days. Mine all have what looks like scotch tape angled at the corners just like the picture holders. Your thoughts please... thank you, Douglas

Douglas

I collected these cards back in 1947. I pulled them out of BOND BREAD packages. Their corners were Factory (die cut) rounded.

FYI....I'm reprising my initial post here.

Originally Posted by Archive

Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

It was the Summer of '47....my sister and I carefully opened up Homogenized Bond Bread packages, for a Joe DiMaggio, a Ted Williams,
a Stan Musial, or the new rookie sensation....a Jackie Robinson BB card. Our Mom couldn't buy enough of the Bond Bread loafs. So, we
had our Dad buying Bond Bread for his restaurant and our Aunt buying Bond Bread. In the Fall of 1947, we experienced one of the most
exciting World Series ever played. 1947 was a tremendous year for BB, and a great start for me in the wonderful life-long hobby of col-
lecting BB cards. These B/W cards were really popular with the kids in our neighborhood. By trading & sharing our collections with each
other, we eventually realized that there were no more than 44 BB players and 4 Boxers in a complete set.


1947 Homogenized BOND BREAD wrapper






Many cards in this set are the very 1st (or rookie) cards issued of the players. Shown here are the 1st cards of Yogi Berra, Stan Musial,
Jackie Pobinson, Gil Hodges, Ralph Kiner and Bobby Thomson.








TED Z

[Leon]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Douglas

I collected these cards back in 1947. I pulled them out of BOND BREAD packages. Their corners were Factory (die cut) rounded.

FYI....I'm reprising my initial post here.

And an informative reprisal thread is always welcome. Most board members didn't collect in 1947.

[Paul S]

Originally Posted by Leon

And an informative reprisal thread is always welcome. Most board members didn't collect in 1947.

Many of us have enjoyed ripping wax, most of us would love to have ripped tobacco and caramel...Ted is the only one I know that has ripped flour.

[doolittle1.1.1]

Originally Posted by Archive

Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

It was the Summer of '47....my sister and I carefully opened up Homogenized Bond Bread packages, for a Joe DiMaggio, a Ted Williams,
a Stan Musial, or the new rookie sensation....a Jackie Robinson BB card. Our Mom couldn't buy enough of the Bond Bread loafs. So, we
had our Dad buying Bond Bread for his restaurant and our Aunt buying Bond Bread. In the Fall of 1947, we experienced one of the most
exciting World Series ever played. 1947 was a tremendous year for BB, and a great start for me in the wonderful life-long hobby of col-
lecting BB cards. These B/W cards were really popular with the kids in our neighborhood. By trading & sharing our collections with each
other, we eventually realized that there were no more than 44 BB players and 4 Boxers in a complete set.


1947 Homogenized BOND BREAD wrapper






Many cards in this set are the very 1st (or rookie) cards issued of the players. Shown here are the 1st cards of Yogi Berra, Stan Musial,
Jackie Pobinson, Gil Hodges, Ralph Kiner and Bobby Thomson.





This set has been the source of much confusion in the hobby for many years. The only true 1947 Bond Bread cards are these 48 in this
general set and the Jackie Robinson set. All of which have beveled (or ROUNDED) corners in order to fit into the bread loaf packages.
Unfortunately, other issues that resemble the Bond Bread cards that were issued after 1947 and were never packaged in Bond Bread loafs
have been mis-identified as "1947 Bond Bread" cards. Grading Co. have been most guilty of erroneously labeling these SQUARE "imposters".

Shown here are two cards from the 1949 (unknown) issue which includes 24 of the BB players depicted in the 1947 Bond Bread issue and
an additional BB player (or 2). Also, many of the popular Movie Stars of that era were included. These cards may have been printed by the
same firm that printed the 1947 set. However, their SQUARE corners and their inferior cardboard stock belie the fact that these cards are
NOT related to the "1947 Bond Bread" issue.
A recent find of many of these SQUARE cards (BB and Movie Stars) suggest a 1949 issue date since Walker Cooper is depicted in this col-
section as a NY Giant (Cooper was traded to Cinci in the Summer of '49).


1949 (unknown) issue






A 1947 Bond Bread Team/checklist will follow in the next post here.


TED Z

I do believe you are correct with 1947 vs 1949. The photo of Rizzuto shows his full signature. My photo only shows part of it which means mine is a smaller photo, because they have been in my posssession since 1947/1949 and the back of at least 20 are white and not yellow. The thickness is thin, compared to cards of that era, therefore, I believe this set is the 1949 version Doolittle1.1.1

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Archive

Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

It was the Summer of '47....my sister and I carefully opened up Homogenized Bond Bread packages, for a Joe DiMaggio, a Ted Williams,
a Stan Musial, or the new rookie sensation....a Jackie Robinson BB card. Our Mom couldn't buy enough of the Bond Bread loafs. So, we
had our Dad buying Bond Bread for his restaurant and our Aunt buying Bond Bread. In the Fall of 1947, we experienced one of the most
exciting World Series ever played. 1947 was a tremendous year for BB, and a great start for me in the wonderful life-long hobby of col-
lecting BB cards. These B/W cards were really popular with the kids in our neighborhood. By trading & sharing our collections with each
other, we eventually realized that there were no more than 44 BB players and 4 Boxers in a complete set.


1947 Homogenized BOND BREAD wrapper






Many cards in this set are the very 1st (or rookie) cards issued of the players. Shown here are the 1st cards of Yogi Berra, Stan Musial,
Jackie Pobinson, Gil Hodges, Ralph Kiner and Bobby Thomson.





This set has been the source of much confusion in the hobby for many years. The only true 1947 Bond Bread cards are these 48 in this
general set and the Jackie Robinson set. All of which have beveled (or ROUNDED) corners in order to fit into the bread loaf packages.
Unfortunately, other issues that resemble the Bond Bread cards that were issued after 1947 and were never packaged in Bond Bread loafs
have been mis-identified as "1947 Bond Bread" cards. Grading Co. have been most guilty of erroneously labeling these SQUARE "imposters".

Shown here are two cards from the 1949 (unknown) issue which includes 24 of the BB players depicted in the 1947 Bond Bread issue and
an additional BB player (or 2). Also, many of the popular Movie Stars of that era were included. These cards may have been printed by the
same firm that printed the 1947 set. However, their SQUARE corners and their inferior cardboard stock belie the fact that these cards are
NOT related to the "1947 Bond Bread" issue.
A recent find of many of these SQUARE cards (BB and Movie Stars) suggest a 1949 issue date since Walker Cooper is depicted in this col-
lection as a NY Giant (Cooper was traded to Cinci in the Summer of '49).


1949 (unknown) issue






A 1947 Bond Bread Team/checklist will follow in the next post here.


TED Z

Like magic, my 1st post images have re-appeared. I'm in the process of gradually transferring my images to another system.


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[topcat61]

Tip Top and Bond Bread were issued by the same company -Ward Baking, whose parent company was General Baking when these 2 sets were issued in 1947.

Tip Top only issued cards for the cities that had teams -for example, Tip Top contained only cards of the Braves and Red Sox while New York were only issued Yankees, Giants and Dodgers, so collectors would see any other team.

I'll go out on a limb and say that Bond Bread cards were issued in states and cities that had no teams. Just a wild guess.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by topcat61

Tip Top and Bond Bread were issued by the same company -Ward Baking, whose parent company was General Baking when these 2 sets were issued in 1947.

Tip Top only issued cards for the cities that had teams -for example, Tip Top contained only cards of the Braves and Red Sox while New York were only issued Yankees, Giants and Dodgers, so collectors would see any other team.

I'll go out on a limb and say that Bond Bread cards were issued in states and cities that had no teams. Just a wild guess.

Ryan

Both 1947 BOND BREAD and TIP TOP cards were issued in states and cities which had Major League teams playing BB.

I don't understand this last statement of yours. It does not make any sense.

I collected these BOND BREAD cards as a very young kid in the Summer/Fall of 1947. We lived in NJ (less than a 1/2 hour away from NYC).
My cousins who lived in NYC collected these same cards.

The TIP TOP Set consists of 163 subjects which represent 11 teams in the Major Leagues.

The BOND BREAD set consists of 44 ballplayers....here is a team checklist:

NEW YORK GIANTS
-------------------
JOHNNY MIZE
SID GORDON
LARRY JANSEN
SHELDON JONES
BUDDY KERR
WHITEY LOCKMAN
WILLARD MARSHALL
BOBBY THOMSON

BROOKLYN DODGERS
--------------------
JACKIE ROBINSON
REX BARNEY
RALPH BRANCA
BRUCE EDWARDS
CARL FURILLO
JOE HATTEN
GIL HODGES
PEE WEE REESE


NEW YORK YANKEES
--------------------
JOE DiMAGGIO
LARRY BERRA
JOE GORDON
CHARLIE KELLER
JOHNNY LINDELL
PHIL RIZZUTO
AARON ROBINSON

BOSTON RED SOX
------------------
TED WILLIAMS
DOM DIMAGGIO
BOBBY DOERR
JOHNNY PESKY

CLEVELAND INDIANS
---------------------
BOB FELLER
LOU BOUDREAU
KEN KELTNER
BIRDIE TEBBETTS

ST LOUIS CARDINALS
----------------------
STAN MUSIAL
HARRY BRECHEEN
ENOS SLAUGHTER

BOSTON BRAVES
-----------------
JOHNNY SAIN
BOB ELLIOTT
TOMMY HOLMES

CINCINNATI REDS
-------------------
EWELL BLACKWELL
JOHNNY VANDERMEER

CHICAGO CUBS
-------------
ANDY PAFKO

PHILADELPHIA ATHLETICS
--------------------------
EDDIE JOOST

PHILADELPHIA PHILLIES
-------------------------
DEL ENNIS

PITTSBURGH PIRATES
----------------------
RALPH KINER

ST LOUIS BROWNS
-------------------
VERN STEPHENS



TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[topcat61]

Well, I did say I'd go out on a limb

[tedzan]

Mistaken post.

[todeen]

Picked this up ungraded. Took a risk.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[abctoo]

Thanks all for starting to post your cards, whether individually or side-by-side with another from the different set. We need to see the backs of any "rounded" (die-cut) corner cards, especially if you can identify it to being a card from the Sport Star Subjects set. The more we get of Bond Bread and Sport Star Subject images, the better we can all see the difference. Even if you have a card that you're not sure is a Bond Bread insert or a Sport Star Subjects card (regardless of how a grading company may have classified it), we may have enough to tell the difference. Thanks again, Mike

[Picklepete]

[IMG]2020-08-19_11-21-13 by Pete Defino, on Flickr[/IMG]

So I'm going to assume this is a 1947 Bond Bread ?

Back..
[IMG]2020-08-20_12-58-53 by Pete Defino, on Flickr[/IMG]

[68Hawk]

Managed to get to mine today and take some pics......sorry for the pink cast, I'm no so good with the camera.
I took them on a white granite with gray fleck, I was trying to give a comparison in shade of stock. I'd say overall minus the pink cast - if you imagined 2 shades lighter for actual briteness of stock you'd be in the park. Definitely NOT a grey toned back, any flecking and pattering on the white back is more light caramel in hue.
Hope these close ups show the cuts well enough, as well as some vagaries of printing...

[abctoo]

Originally Posted by 68Hawk

Managed to get to mine today and take some pics......sorry for the pink cast, I'm no so good with the camera . . ."

Your pictures are fine. The obvious question is whether it is a Bond Bread package insert or a card from the "Sport Star Subjects" set.

If you're willing, let's put it to the grading service. What I'd do is send them an e-mail saying you received back this card (give them their graded card number) and ask how do they know it's a 1947 Bond Bread insert card and not a card from the "Sport Star Subjects" set. I'd also attach to the e-mail the scan below (or a similar scan) of "Sport Star Subjects" boxes so they have no excuse for not knowing what you are talking about. [The scan was provided in Post #280 above on 06-11-2020 by member "tim"].

I think we all would like to know what they say. Will they say both of those sets are Bond Bread sets, or they don't know what the "Sport Star Subjects" set is, or something else? If they ask you any questions, bring them back here and we all can help answer them. Be well, Mike



P.S. They might say the card submission form said a "Bond Bread card." Even if it did, that's no excuse for a grading service. They should never take a submitter's definition at face value, and should authenticate any card before they put their label on the slab. Good luck!

[68Hawk]

Originally Posted by abctoo

Your pictures are fine. The obvious question is whether it is a Bond Bread package insert or a card from the "Sport Star Subjects" set.

If you're willing, let's put it to the grading service. What I'd do is send them an e-mail saying you received back this card (give them their graded card number) and ask how do they know it's a 1947 Bond Bread insert card and not a card from the "Sport Star Subjects" set. I'd also attach to the e-mail the scan below (or a similar scan) of "Sport Star Subjects" boxes so they have no excuse for not knowing what you are talking about. [The scan was provided in Post #280 above on 06-11-2020 by member "tim"].

I think we all would like to know what they say. Will they say both of those sets are Bond Bread sets, or they don't know what the "Sport Star Subjects" set is, or something else? If they ask you any questions, bring them back here and we all can help answer them. Be well, Mike



P.S. They might say the card submission form said a "Bond Bread card." Even if it did, that's no excuse for a grading service. They should never take a submitter's definition at face value, and should authenticate any card before they put their label on the slab. Good luck!

Uhm, Mike, I was just offering up some pics.
Do with them as you will for your research but I'm not co-sponsering. Ok?

[Cmount76]

Any help on this one would be appreciated.

[Mike Eisenbath]

Gentlemen, I respect your knowledge and opinions very much, so I'd like to ask your advice. I have a strong emotional affinity for Stan Musial. I'd really like to own a 1947 Bond Bread Musial. A ROUNDED-CORNERS Musial, of course. But I'm suspect of a couple I've seen that they could be altered versions of a squared-corners one. Is there history of this happening? With PSA not touching those cards, I find only SGC-graded cards. Should I trust completely those cards are legit? If I look at a raw card, is there a giveaway on alteration? Thank you!

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

[abctoo]

Originally Posted by Mike Eisenbath

Gentlemen, I respect your knowledge and opinions very much, so I'd like to ask your advice. I have a strong emotional affinity for Stan Musial. I'd really like to own a 1947 Bond Bread Musial. A ROUNDED-CORNERS Musial, of course. But I'm suspect of a couple I've seen that they could be altered versions of a squared-corners one. Is there history of this happening? With PSA not touching those cards, I find only SGC-graded cards. Should I trust completely those cards are legit? If I look at a raw card, is there a giveaway on alteration? Thank you!

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

The "rounded-corners" are not exactly round, but were die-cut and can generally appear suspect because of the crude nature of the die-cutting. At the moment, not too many of the "squared-corners" have been trimmed to look as if they are "rounded" ones. For the moment, that should not be your biggest concern.

The real issue is whether the card is an actual Bond Bread package insert card or whether it is a virtually identical lookalike from the "rounded-corner" Sport Star Subjects set.

Those participating in this thread have not come to a consensus as to the date of issue of the Sport Star Subjects set. A few doubt whether the Sport Star Subjects set ever existed with "rounded-corners."

If you see a Musial card you like, take it on its face value. I am of the opinion that the very high grade Stan Musial cards available today (whether graded or not) are generally not Bond Bread cards but are from the round-corner Sport Star Subjects set.

Mike

[w5als]

Hi all
New here need help on bond bread cards. I am in the process of doing a book on them and need card info. I need L/W and thickness on all bond bread cards.
Round corner square corner the Jackie Robinson set the exhibit set to. forget
the two-sided set to. I need the sizes and thickness on all the cards and will take pictures on any of these cards front and back please. If you can please help me out.
thanks
alton

[GasHouseGang]

This card is currently being auctioned. I must add the disclaimer that I do not claim to be an expert on these cards. However, I was wondering when I saw this card, do you think someone took one of the later versions and cut off the corners to make it look like a Bond Bread card? Opinions are welcome. In case Leon asks for full name, David Maupin

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by GasHouseGang

This card is currently being auctioned. I must add the disclaimer that I do not claim to be an expert on these cards. However, I was wondering when I saw this card, do you think someone took one of the later versions and cut off the corners to make it look like a Bond Bread card? Opinions are welcome. In case Leon asks for full name, David Maupin

It would be helpful to see the back.

[GasHouseGang]

Here's a picture of the back.

[GasHouseGang]

I figured Ted would know if this kind of odd cut on the corners was normal.