"The Scandal" Turns 3

[Peter_Spaeth]

This week marks the third anniversary of the Blowout thread on the PWCC 1952 Topps Mantle that quickly morphed into a far-reaching scandal with every day seeming to bring new accusations against card doctors and their enablers, and outed cards in droves. There were stories in the national press, an FBI investigation, subpoenas at the National, astonishing ostrich acts by TPGs and the culprits themselves, and so forth.

So, where are we after 3 years? The cynic in me is tempted to say, exactly as we were before.

To my knowledge, and I could be wrong, there have been no indictments or guilty pleas.

Speculation is that Brent Huigens, who had been cooperating with the FBI, decided not to. But again, I don't know that.

I also don't know the status of the investigation itself. I certainly hope it's ongoing, although I can understand why some would think otherwise.

More importantly, though, how many have changed their behavior as a result of all the revelations? Have you stopped buying from people who were outed? Have you increased your research on cards before buying? Have you changed what you buy? Or are you still pretty much relying on the flip to tell you the card is unaltered (if you even care)?

Personally, I had high hopes this would bring about major changes to the hobby or the graded card segment anyhow. Now, I think not.

As you were.

[Johnny630]

Well stated.

Sadly it is my opinion that this has passed over, nobody will be held accountable, many are still setting up at the major shows or walking the floor. Every Major Auction Realizes Higher and Higher Sales, it’s an Investors Market Now, all that matters is the grade. Many could care less, they just want the number on the slab.

[parkplace33]

Nothing has changed… scratch that, investors got wealthier.

And those subpoenas from the National? Forget about it.

[parkplace33]

The whole thing saddens me sometimes. But most collectors could care less.

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by parkplace33

Nothing has changed… scratch that, investors got wealthier.

And those subpoenas from the National? Forget about it.

+1 agreed.
Their should have been accountability but not surprised there was not

[aconte]

Before that there was the t206’s with bad autographs. Right? How did that one get resolved?


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[vintagetoppsguy]

Like it or not, Jake was 100% right and most here were wrong.

[Natedog]

I'm sure a lot of those "outed" PSA cards have been bought and sold many times over since, and as long as money is being made, nobody seems to care.

[Keith H. Thompson]

I wish calvindog was on my side. Keith H Thompson

[robw1959]

Although nothing has changed in the hobby with regard to buying and selling, I think many buyers may still be looking more closely at graded cards, especially PSA cards. I know I do. I do think PSA has adopted a more rigorous grading process to earn that public trust back again, but that's about it.

[egri]

Originally Posted by aconte

Before that there was the t206’s with bad autographs. Right? How did that one get resolved?


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I remember that as well, but I haven't heard anything about it in years.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by aconte

Before that there was the t206’s with bad autographs. Right? How did that one get resolved?


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Originally Posted by egri

I remember that as well, but I haven't heard anything about it in years.

That one was getting hushed up very quickly. I was amazed at how many people wanted that to go away and not be talked about. It worked to because it was like "poof" and it was swept under the rug.

[Rich Klein]

Originally Posted by egri

I remember that as well, but I haven't heard anything about it in years.

One thing which came out of that event was SGC Closed down their autograph authentication service. That was a significant reaction in my opinion.

Rich

[ALBB]

Not much has changed..and those doctored cards are still out there..in somebody's collection...and they know it....and someday will try to pass them on to another collector

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by Rich Klein

One thing which came out of that event was SGC Closed down their autograph authentication service. That was a significant reaction in my opinion.

Rich

Yes.... and far fewer (meaning hardly any) signed T206 have hit the market since then. I'd say it was a positive outcome.

Perhaps not so much for the altered card scandal (which is waaaaay larger in scope). Perhaps the FBI is still on it, but it's looking like the only real casualty is PWCC, who was booted from ebay.

If nothing else, the sleuths at Blowout helped us to steer clear of a whole bunch of dishonest sellers. That's some consolation, anyway.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I will be beyond disappointed if there are no consequences for the card doctors who have polluted this hobby. But even if that’s the case, it’s certainly been interesting and an education.

[samosa4u]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

More importantly, though, how many have changed their behavior as a result of all the revelations?

As a result of all of this, I have started buying more modern cards. With vintage cards, you can soak them, remove stains, whiten the paper stock, press out light creases, press down corners, recolor them, etc. Now, try doing all of this on modern card stock - you can't!

The only thing that I have to look out for when I buy modern is a) trimming and b) to make sure the jersey patch wasn't switched. However, most of the modern cards that I buy don't have patches, and so this isn't much of an issue.

[japhi]

Originally Posted by samosa4u

As a result of all of this, I have started buying more modern cards. With vintage cards, you can soak them, remove stains, whiten the paper stock, press out light creases, press down corners, recolor them, etc. Now, try doing all of this on modern card stock - you can't!

The only thing that I have to look out for when I buy modern is a) trimming and b) to make sure the jersey patch wasn't switched. However, most of the modern cards that I buy don't have patches, and so this isn't much of an issue.

Good luck with that. I remember reading a post on BO where they outed something like 50 McDavid FWA's as being trimmed. Apparently they come big from the factory and guys were trimming these into 10s in bulk. Not exactly a cheap card either.

Suspect it would be incredibly easy to do the same with most young guns. In fact, you could probably invest in a modern cutter and trim your way to glory with modern hockey, the TPG's have not demonstrated any ability to spot micro trimming on modern cards.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Keep in mind that with strict rules of evidence and a very high burden of proof, not all crimes can be successfully prosecuted in court. At one point Brent Huigens was a cooperating witness and his rumored decision not to cooperate may have changed the prosecutor's calculus. If indeed this is all over from the criminal justice angle, and we don't know that, I think evidentiary considerations likely were more the reason than either the FBI or the prosecutor considering this unimportant. Prosecutors only like to pursue cases they feel they have a strong chance of winning. The evidence in the court of public opinion is quite different from what is admissible in court. They couldn't just put up screenshots of Blowout threads.

All speculation of course.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Posted in the related thread as well:

dumb question. How long (without the additional delaying effects of a pandemic) did the investigation of Mastro take? Doug Allen? Operation Bullpen? Was there a point in those investigations where people were like "see they didn't do anything because they haven't been charged and it's been 'X' amount of time"???

[Peter_Spaeth]

OOf.
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...&postcount=149

[samosa4u]

Originally Posted by japhi

Good luck with that. I remember reading a post on BO where they outed something like 50 McDavid FWA's as being trimmed. Apparently they come big from the factory and guys were trimming these into 10s in bulk. Not exactly a cheap card either.

Suspect it would be incredibly easy to do the same with most young guns. In fact, you could probably invest in a modern cutter and trim your way to glory with modern hockey, the TPG's have not demonstrated any ability to spot micro trimming on modern cards.

It's actually not that difficult to tell, well, for me anyways. All I do is lay the modern card down on a flat surface and then I place a small flashlight next to it at a certain angle. In the next step, I use a loupe and study the edges and corners. Believe it or not, but I have BGS 9.5 cards with bits of corner wear and bits of chipping on the edges. In other words, they are not supposed to look flawless. And it's even easier to tell when you study the backs. The backs usually have a different design compared to the fronts, such as colored borders, colored corners, etc. Again, even pack pulled examples should have a bit of "whiteness" showing on the corners there. I stay the hell away from modern cards that look perfect because I don't believe they came out of packs looking perfect.