Let's Talk E90-1

[rdixon1208]

I've only got a couple now, but I plan to start collecting E90-1's with more focus. I've read through some old posts and done some online research, but I still have some questions. First of all, why can't I find a Tris Speaker? This card's been at the top of my want list for a couple of years. One came up in a Goodwin auction a year or so ago, but another board member wanted it worse than me I guess. Had I know I wouldn't see another one for so long I would have made him pay more. Otherwise, I haven't seen another one for sale or auction. Does anyone have any information as to why this card is so tough? Also, what are the other tough cards in the set? I know they were printed over a 3 year period...does anyone have a breakdown of which cards were likely printed in a given year? I guess I could do my own research to try to figure that out, but I was hoping one of you old timers may have already done that and would be willing to share. Also, it seems to me like many of the HOFers come up for auction much more often than the commons. Has anyone else noticed this and is there a good reason for that? I'll probably think of more questions, but I'll stop for now. One last thing...scans always make a threrad much more enjoyable so please show em if you got em.

E90-1 Crawford.jpg

[Jaybird]

here's my lone example. I like this set. Couple of really neat cards like the Duffy and Sweeney.

[smokelessjoe]

Here are the ones I have....

[barrysloate]

Tris Speaker is one of the short prints and is among the toughest cards in the set.

[Leon]

E90-1 is the T206 of Caramel cards. While I like to have current threads as new information is gleaned fairly often, there is a long E90-1 thread in our archive section that is worth checking out, though it's about 6 yrs old. And this card came in 2nd place when I was contemplating what card to use on our Net54baseball T-shirts. It is one of my favorite caramel cards aesthetically speaking. What isn't to like about it? Good luck in the Endeavor....

[ethicsprof]

I,too, think that these are very beautiful cards.
Typically, I only get one card per type for my type collection but ended up
with 3 of these!!
I have 2 from the Nagy collection: schlitzer and roy thomas
and my third is sheckard.
best of luck in your new quest,
barry

[chaddurbin]

speaker isn't any scarcer than any of the other toughies, it's just collectors tend to hold onto the card longer once it's in their possession...speaker's not in many other contemporary caramel issues, it's his identified rookie "card", letting it go might mean it will be hard to get it back. so one would have a list of big cards to sell from the set before thinking about selling the speaker (it makes a cool rookie caramel type card). there was a point 6-7 years back where 4-5 of varying grades came onto the market in 3-4 mos (i was guilty of having 2) but the last few sales it's been the same sgc 10. don't worry after this thread you'll see 1-2 pop up the next 6 months.

[steve B]

They're nice cards. I pick them up once in a while, and should probably get more. Most of mine are a bit rough. Except for this one.
The grade is a generous one since there's a really light crease in the center of the card.

Another odd note is that the 2010 big book lists it as one of the tough ones, which is a typo.

Steve B

[ScottFandango]

ahh the mysteries of the E90-1

some of the well known "rarities" are not as rare as others lesser known cards..

not to mention that certain cards come with two types of backs, a regular back and a SHADED BORDERS back...

some debate over this but if only certain (known by me) cards are found with the shaded back, then its not random printing errors (otherwise the shaded backs would be found on all the 120 cards which its not)

the shaded reverse cards are all LOW POP cards that are uncommon to find on ebay for sale...no common cards (most that are for sale on ebay) have shaded backs!

plus if you look at the front of the dozen or so shaded reverse cards, they all look similar on the front (same artist perhaps) signifying these were a separate print run (the rarest print run apparently)

i know Bob Lemke didnt think it was valid enough to document this in his book, but i dont think all the debate is done in regards to the overlooked obverse sides..

cheers

[vintagetoppsguy]

I've been going back and forth over the last year or so trying to decide if I want to start this set or not. I have picked up a few HOFers along the way.





Not a HOFer, but I picked this up on eBay earlier this week:

[Ladder7]

Would be a fun challenge to assemble, someday perhaps. The Young (Bos) is the pick of the litter. That 50 is sweet.

[ls7plus]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

I've been going back and forth over the last year or so trying to decide if I want to start this set or not. I have picked up a few HOFers along the way.





Not a HOFer, but I picked this up on eBay earlier this week:

David obviously has an extremely good sense of eye appeal, aside and apart from technical grade!

Happy collecting,

Larry

[tedzan]

Here are two previous Net54 threads on the E90-1 cards that you will find to be very informative.
Check them out.........................

Let's Talk E90-1....toughest Candy card set ?

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...-1+set+respect

E90-1.....and the "Dirty Thirty" theory

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...-1+set+respect



Here are several of the toughest cards in the E90-1 set............................................... .................................................. ...






............................. Wagner .................................................. .............. Upp .....................




......... KEELER NY Nat'l .........



TED Z

[tonyo]

Originally Posted by rdixon1208

I know they were printed over a 3 year period...does anyone have a breakdown of which cards were likely printed in a given year?

According to Lew Lipset's encyclopedia:
extremely rare; Mitchell (cin), graham, sweeney (bos)
rare; Clarke (pitts), Duffy, Karger, Keeler (horiz), Stahl, Speaker, Walsh
Those were all printed in 1911 (his estimate)

very difficult; Bemis, Bescher, Gibson (rear view), Joss (horiz), Lobert, McLean, Seigle, Shean, Wagner (fld), Young (cleve).
difficult: Bransfield (pink), Brown (chi), Demmitt, Dougherty, Fromme, Howell (windup), Keeler (red), Overall, Schlitzer, Wagner (btg), Wiltse
Those were all printed in 1910 (his estimate) except Fromme and Keeler (red).

These are also on his list of 1910's, but not listed as difficult:
Clement, Hartzell, Irwin, Knight, Leach, Mitchell (NY), Oakes, O'Leary, Phelps, Richie, Stone, Upp, Willis


Personally I love alot of the action poses, but only if the lips aren't too red. Willis has one red lip, but the colors of the sky in the backgraound overshadow that imo!


Here are my two:

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by tonyo

According to Lew Lipset's encyclopedia:
extremely rare; Mitchell (cin), graham, sweeney (bos)
rare; Clarke (pitts), Duffy, Karger, Keeler (horiz), Stahl, Speaker, Walsh
Those were all printed in 1911 (his estimate)

very difficult; Bemis, Bescher, Gibson (rear view), Joss (horiz), Lobert, McLean, Seigle, Shean, Wagner (fld), Young (cleve).
difficult: Bransfield (pink), Brown (chi), Demmitt, Dougherty, Fromme, Howell (windup), Keeler (red), Overall, Schlitzer, Wagner (btg), Wiltse
Those were all printed in 1910 (his estimate) except Fromme and Keeler (red).

These are also on his list of 1910's, but not listed as difficult:
Clement, Hartzell, Irwin, Knight, Leach, Mitchell (NY), Oakes, O'Leary, Phelps, Richie, Stone, Upp, Willis

Since Lew published his encyclopedia, many of us E90-1 collectors/dealers have updated Lew's level of scarcity list as so:

The last series (very tough) was most likely issued in the Summer of 1910 (this is based on certain player trades).
And, it comprises of......

Harry Bemis
Bob Bescher
Buster Brown.....horizontal
Fred Clarke (Pitts)
Hugh Duffy
Peaches Graham
Charlie Hall.....horizontal
Addie Joss.....horizontal
Willie Keeler (NY Nat'l).....horizontal
Ed Karger
Hans Lobert
Larry McLean
Mike Mitchell (Cinci)
Johnny Seigle.....horizontal
Dave Shean
Tris Speaker
Jake Stahl
Bill Sweeney
Jerry Upp
Ed Walsh
Vic Willis
Cy Young (Cleve)




Furthermore, I'm not certain if this pose of Wagner is considered very tough; and, was possibly included in the 1910 series. It appears to have been drawn
by the same artist that did the Speaker card. Some say it should be included in this very tough 1910 series.

What is your opinion of the scarcity of this Wagner card ?


NOTE.....This list is subject to modification, I welcome your inputs.


TED Z

[HRBAKER]

A few A's:

[joeadcock]

Here is a couple of my not in such good condition E90-1's.

[joeadcock]

A few others

[Bosox Blair]

Oh yeah, here's another Boston AL card that is a bit tougher than "common":

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Bosox Blair

Ted,

What do you make of the fact that E92 Dockman features Shean as a Boston NL player (if anything)? I have seen Dockman dated as a 1909 set...so if Ramly had Boston (including Shean) locked up with contracts, Dockman didn't care? Or maybe Dockman is a 1910 set too?

Interesting since the E92 poses overlap with E90-1 as well...

Cheers,
Blair

Blair

I am not sure I understand.....David Shean is not pictured in the Ramly set. Please clarify ?

Shean was traded from the Phillies to the Boston Doves on July 16, 1909.

And is it possible that the Dockman set was produced in 1910 (instead of 1909) ? Perhaps, Yes.

We have discovered that some of the E-sets have been mis-dated. For example, the E90-1 set
is catalogued as 1909-1911. My research indicates that it should be dated as a 1908-1910 set.


TED Z

[tedzan]

As the "myth" claims....Wagner was an anti-cigarette guy. So, with his appearance on most of the E-cards,
can we assume that he was quite fond of caramel candy


..



TED Z

[Bosox Blair]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Blair

I am not sure I understand.....David Shean is not pictured in the Ramly set. Please clarify ?

Shean was traded from the Phillies to the Boston Doves on July 16, 1909.

And is it possible that the Dockman set was produced in 1910 (instead of 1909) ? Perhaps, Yes.

We have discovered that some of the E-sets have been mis-dated. For example, the E90-1 set
is catalogued as 1909-1911. My research indicates that it should be dated as a 1908-1910 set.


TED Z

Hi Ted,

I was just referring back to your earlier post in this thread (#19) where you listed Shean as one of the tougher late-issued E90-1 cards and you stated in that post your theory that Ramly had the rights to these players for 1909. I understood you to be including Shean and also quite a few others in your list who did not actually have Ramly cards, like Tris Speaker, etc.

Maybe I'm not clear on what your theory is?

I take your point on the dating of sets...some could be either 1909 or 1910 depending on what time of year they were issued.

Cheers,
Blair