Chatted With Bill Goodwin Today

[GregMitch34]

Called about an invoice, no big deal, but since I had him on phone asked about any possible changes in auction ending rules, given the uproar in some quarters over the end of this week's auctions which came at, what, 6 a.m. in the East? He was very friendly and responsive and talked about pros and cons of various ideas. He said, yes, it has gotten much worse lately so he would like to make change, but to what?

Says he once tried ending the lots separately but it was a "disaster'--many complained. Ending all at a fixed time, say 1 a.m., also draws complaints because people like to jump to other lots if they lose one. And so on. He says though there appears to be little action in the middle of the night a lot of dough gets bid on higher end lots. He ended by asking me for ANY ideas, very open to hearing, so if you want to propose some below, please do. Of course, it's a problem with several auctions, not just his.

[travrosty]

the obvious answer is to end all lots at the same time, midnight or so. just tell people to have their top bid in all their lots by that time. if you need to go back and try to squeeze in another bid under the wire, then you didnt have your top bid in. so just put your top bid in by 11:30 and don't worry about it.

[CW]

Originally Posted by travrosty

the obvious answer is to end all lots at the same time, midnight or so. just tell people to have their top bid in all their lots by that time. if you need to go back and try to squeeze in another bid under the wire, then you didnt have your top bid in. so just put your top bid in by 11:30 and don't worry about it.

This takes out the aspect of a bidding war, which can lead to higher prices. If AHs ended everything at a set time, it would become nothing more than a glorified eBay auction where all the lots end at once.

I was going to suggest the change to 8-10 minute bidding, but John beat me to the punch, so I'll just agree with his idea. They could also start extended bidding a 8pm, although that probably doesn't matter much.

I am amazed when an AH ends an auction on a weekday, though, and we saw it happen twice this week. I thought they all ended on Fri/Sat night, or at least they should.

[Seiklis]

One thing I noticed when I was looking at the rules is that Goodwin doesn't have a " If the auction is still running at 3:00 AM EST on the morning of (Date), it may be ended at any time at the sole discretion of the auction house" disclaimer that Sterling and REA has. Those last few hours were bids at a trickle of maybe 1 every 7 minutes so a disclaimer to end it anytime after 2 or 3 AM would probably be the best way to go.

That said, this Goodwin was all about that one guy who bid on like 15 T206s in a row at 4 AM. That's what really extended the auction out

[HRBAKER]

Just refuse to play, it's just stuff.

[markf31]

I like the idea that Clean Sweep uses, they increases the buyers premium as the night goes on, to discourage extending the auction late. Bids placed after 1am and the buyers premium increases by 5% from the base premium, after 2am and the premium increases by 10% from the base premium. This encourages bidders to get their max bids in prior to 1am.

[oldjudge]

Personally, I like lots to close individually, but if the auction house wants to close all lots at one time, say that if not already closed the auction ends at 1 AM EDT. Personally, I don't think the format of the auction affects the final prices very much. It only affects the amount of sleep people get. Auctions end at 4AM or later because some bidders feel they can gain an advantage by bidding late. Take the advantage away and they will simply bid earlier.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Personally, I like lots to close individually, but if the auction house wants to close all lots at one time, say that if not already closed the auction ends at 1 AM EDT. Personally, I don't think the format of the auction affects the final prices very much. It only affects the amount of sleep people get. Auctions end at 4AM or later because some bidders feel they can gain an advantage by bidding late. Take the advantage away and they will simply bid earlier.

Yeap....bidders will bid within the system. We are adaptable.

[wonkaticket]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Personally, I like lots to close individually, but if the auction house wants to close all lots at one time, say that if not already closed the auction ends at 1 AM EDT. Personally, I don't think the format of the auction affects the final prices very much. It only affects the amount of sleep people get. Auctions end at 4AM or later because some bidders feel they can gain an advantage by bidding late. Take the advantage away and they will simply bid earlier.

+1

Jay, agree right now these things run till Amish barn raising hours as part of folks strategy’s in the hope that bidders will have fallen off to sleep or rolled out of frustration. It’s sort of really a low tech snipe strategy with the person on the other end acting as the “last second computer” placing the bid in the wee hours.

[z28jd]

Why not just change the 15 minute rule to 10 minutes, or less? End the initial bidding an hour earlier, put in a five minute rule instead, bids will run out sooner

[thehoodedcoder]

Originally Posted by GregMitch34

Called about an invoice, no big deal, but since I had him on phone asked about any possible changes in auction ending rules, given the uproar in some quarters over the end of this week's auctions which came at, what, 6 a.m. in the East? He was very friendly and responsive and talked about pros and cons of various ideas. He said, yes, it has gotten much worse lately so he would like to make change, but to what?

Says he once tried ending the lots separately but it was a "disaster'--many complained. Ending all at a fixed time, say 1 a.m., also draws complaints because people like to jump to other lots if they lose one. And so on. He says though there appears to be little action in the middle of the night a lot of dough gets bid on higher end lots. He ended by asking me for ANY ideas, very open to hearing, so if you want to propose some below, please do. Of course, it's a problem with several auctions, not just his.

yes. increase the time for each lot, from 15 minutes to 30 minutes. this will allow flipping between lots, yet time out the ones with no activity.

people that want lots will adjust, getting proxy bidders to bid for them or expanding to have multiple monitors to watch all of their auctions, or having a single consolidated place to bid on things rather than having to have a giant page open to bid. a simple list view with a button, current price, next bid and bid button in more than enough.

for the love of god. if they need a developer, so kevin doesn't have stay up till 7am on every auction, he may just volunteer some design ideas and development time.

kevin

[atx840]

Individual clocks or a hard close time.

Not sure lowering the clock time will help as I rarely see it drop below 13 minutes for the first few hours.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by GregMitch34

Called about an invoice, no big deal, but since I had him on phone asked about any possible changes in auction ending rules, given the uproar in some quarters over the end of this week's auctions which came at, what, 6 a.m. in the East? He was very friendly and responsive and talked about pros and cons of various ideas. He said, yes, it has gotten much worse lately so he would like to make change, but to what?

Says he once tried ending the lots separately but it was a "disaster'--many complained. Ending all at a fixed time, say 1 a.m., also draws complaints because people like to jump to other lots if they lose one. And so on. He says though there appears to be little action in the middle of the night a lot of dough gets bid on higher end lots. He ended by asking me for ANY ideas, very open to hearing, so if you want to propose some below, please do. Of course, it's a problem with several auctions, not just his.

Bill Goodwin is running a business -- a business in which he needs to get the most money for his consignors or he loses them -- and loses his business. Why stop the auction when he's bringing in more money for his consignors (and him)? As noted above, it's the BIDDERS' faults who run the auction so late through the night, figuring that they'll hold out as long as possible to bid so that their competition will drop out. Don't blame the auction house for this. We have the right to complain about fraud, not the fact that the AH wants to make more money for its consignors.

PS I was up half the night bidding on one card; had I known the auction would run until 6:45 I would have set my alarm for 6:43; however, that's the chance you have to take if you want the card bad enough. I got the card.

[Gradedcardman]

Jeff,

Well said !!

[Tim Kindler]

I like the action of the last man standing or at least awake. It gives the auction its thrill to me. I hate the idea of an auction ending at say midnight and you hope that your max bid was enough. No offense to any auction company out there or anyone who runs one(Scott, Leon, Bill, Lee, Steve Etc.), but I don't put max bids out there anymore, because I'm cynical and it is hard for me to know who to trust and who not to who might put shill bids in to jack up my prices until my max. I guess I'm trying to say it is better in my opinion to not do max bids for any auction, not just pick and choose. Ending them all at a specific time might add to more shill bidding in my opinion.
Tim

[MMarvelli]

I just really don't understand why the rules have to be changed as they seem to be quite fair for almost all parties concerned...but if everyone is sleep deprived and it is such an issue that it takes five or six pages of possible rule changes so people can get into their jammies at the time they prefer...why not just have the auction close at NOON. Problem solved! Auction will then exhaust itself in time for bed for all. Why is a noon closing not a plausible solution

[Exhibitman]

I prefer it where the lots close individually if there isn't any action on them for a prescribed period of time, probably because the crap I collect seldom has more than one or two bidders anyway so I'd just as soon see it closed. Otherwise, if two or more bidders want to spend all night on an item, let them.

The war by attrition thing works: I partnered with a friend on a lot in a recent auction and we lost it because he fell asleep during the auction and did not place the next bid before it closed...

[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Bill Goodwin is running a business -- a business in which he needs to get the most money for his consignors or he loses them -- and loses his business. Why stop the auction when he's bringing in more money for his consignors (and him)? As noted above, it's the BIDDERS' faults who run the auction so late through the night, figuring that they'll hold out as long as possible to bid so that their competition will drop out. Don't blame the auction house for this. We have the right to complain about fraud, not the fact that the AH wants to make more money for its consignors.

PS I was up half the night bidding on one card; had I known the auction would run until 6:45 I would have set my alarm for 6:43; however, that's the chance you have to take if you want the card bad enough. I got the card.

Yes, well said.

[nolemmings]

I'm not sure the late night model works the best for consignors, although obviously several would disagree. Seems to me that there are many who go to bed and put in their "max", which is fine. But if they knew their max would not hold up, say, because that lot ended earlier, they would have more money to go and bid up other lots. Going to bed and having to put in your "max" on multiple lots forces you to hedge. So those people who choose to go to bed may have spent more if they either stayed up (which they apparently do not want to do) or if the lots ended one by one.

[cfc1909]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Bill Goodwin is running a business -- a business in which he needs to get the most money for his consignors or he loses them -- and loses his business. Why stop the auction when he's bringing in more money for his consignors (and him)? As noted above, it's the BIDDERS' faults who run the auction so late through the night, figuring that they'll hold out as long as possible to bid so that their competition will drop out. Don't blame the auction house for this. We have the right to complain about fraud, not the fact that the AH wants to make more money for its consignors.

PS I was up half the night bidding on one card; had I known the auction would run until 6:45 I would have set my alarm for 6:43; however, that's the chance you have to take if you want the card bad enough. I got the card.

This is the correct answer. Any other situation will cause much more complaints then there already are.