NonSports Forum

Net54baseball.com
Welcome to Net54baseball.com. These forums are devoted to both Pre- and Post- war baseball cards and vintage memorabilia, as well as other sports. There is a separate section for Buying, Selling and Trading - the B/S/T area!! If you write anything concerning a person or company your full name needs to be in your post or obtainable from it. . Contact the moderator at leon@net54baseball.com should you have any questions or concerns. When you click on links to eBay on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network. Enjoy!
Net54baseball.com
Net54baseball.com
T206s on eBay
Babe Ruth Cards on eBay
t206 Ty Cobb on eBay
Ty Cobb Cards on eBay
Lou Gehrig Cards on eBay
Baseball T201-T217 on eBay
Baseball E90-E107 on eBay
T205 Cards on eBay
Baseball Postcards on eBay
Goudey Cards on eBay
Baseball Memorabilia on eBay
Baseball Exhibit Cards on eBay
Baseball Strip Cards on eBay
Baseball Baking Cards on eBay
Sporting News Cards on eBay
Play Ball Cards on eBay
Joe DiMaggio Cards on eBay
Mickey Mantle Cards on eBay
Bowman 1951-1955 on eBay
Football Cards on eBay

Go Back   Net54baseball.com Forums > Net54baseball Main Forum - WWII & Older Baseball Cards > Net54baseball Sports (Primarily) Vintage Memorabilia Forum incl. Game Used

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 02-19-2015, 02:46 PM
ramram's Avatar
ramram ramram is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,265
Default Fairly Important Historical Basketball Find

I recently came across this generic early basketball image on ebay. I liked the content and also the fact that it was very early, historically, for a basketball image made obvious by the fact that it was on a cabinet card. Some research I've done yielded the following interesting information:

(2)(1).jpg

Circa 1897 cabinet card of Randolph “Red” Cramer of the Camden Electrics.

The Camden Electrics (later known as the Skeeters) were founding members of the very first professional basketball league. The National Basketball League (NBL) was established for the 1898/1899 season only seven years after Naismith invented the game. The league consisted of six teams: the Trenton Nationals, Millville Glassblowers, Camden Electrics, Clover Wheelman (aka Philadelphia Clover Wheelmen), Germantown Nationals and the Hancock Athletic Association. The league eventually folded in January of 1904.

The Camden team formed in 1895 under player-coach William “Billy” Morgenweck. Cramer was listed as the team president and also was their star forward. Cramer played for Camden until the 1901/1902 season when, during the season, he moved over to the rival Philadelphia Phillies team.

The cabinet card was produced by Garns & Co. of 206 Federal St. in Camden, New Jersey. One source indicates that the studio existed from 1889 – 1906 while another places it at that location from 1889 – 1897. Cabinet cards of this type were on their way to extinction by the mid 1890’s which makes this a rather rare format for a basketball image.

standings.JPG

The 1895/1896 Camden (pre-NBL) team. Cramer is standing in the back row, second from the right. These early teams often played with seven to nine players on the court per team, which is likely the reason for the large number of players in the photo.


Camden 1895 1896.jpg

Enlargement of Cramer.

Cramer enlarged.JPG

The 98/99 NBL team with Cramer sitting in the honor seat and holding the ball. The players appear to be wearing the same shorts and socks as Cramer has on in the cabinet photo.

Camden 1898 1899.jpg

Image of Cramer, sporting a mustache now, from the 1901 Philadelphia Inquirer. Note that the shorts are the same pair that he was wearing in the cabinet photo.

Cramer 1901.jpg

Interesting note - The professional teams of this early era typically played at local armories on courts of varying sizes. Fencing was often placed around the court to contain the rough play and also to keep the ball in play. Thus the term “cagers” came about to describe these early basketball players.

Some rough looking “cagers” from a circa 1920’s team. Note the fence behind them.


Basketball - cagers 3.JPG
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 02-19-2015, 02:52 PM
Runscott's Avatar
Runscott Runscott is offline
Belltown Vintage
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 10,651
Default

Thanks, Rob - I enjoyed that.
__________________
$co++ Forre$+
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 02-19-2015, 03:10 PM
D. Bergin's Avatar
D. Bergin D. Bergin is offline
Dave
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: CT
Posts: 6,209
Default

Nice catch. That's an exciting find.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 02-19-2015, 04:03 PM
RelicSports RelicSports is offline
Andrew L@Vine
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Chicago
Posts: 487
Default

I am impressed with how long he wore his shorts...the fab 5 must have stole the style from him
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 02-19-2015, 04:10 PM
baseball tourist's Avatar
baseball tourist baseball tourist is offline
Chris Wood
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Vancouver, BC. Canada
Posts: 1,707
Default

Great item! Excellent research.
__________________
Looking for Toronto baseball items. Please contact me at chris@pacmedia.ca
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 02-19-2015, 04:45 PM
aelefson aelefson is offline
Alan Elefson
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: MA
Posts: 1,217
Default

Great find! As you know it is exceedingly difficult to find any basketball items pre 1900.

Alan
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 02-20-2015, 05:30 AM
aquarius31 aquarius31 is offline
George
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: ATL
Posts: 516
Default

Fantastic research, write-up and cabinet!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________
Collection
Looking for any non-Harper baseball woodcuts
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 02-27-2015, 04:05 PM
Exhibitman's Avatar
Exhibitman Exhibitman is offline
Ad@m W@r$h@w
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Beautiful Downtown Burbank
Posts: 13,273
Default

I got a response from Chic Hess, the author of a book on the Passaic HS teams and Professor Blood, ID'ing the people on the Exhibit card:

Here are their names from left to right: Prof Ernest Blood, Fritz Knothe, Fred Merselis, Michael Hamas, Samuel Blitzer, Milton Pashman, Assistant Coach Amasa A. Marks.

So, the card represents an early [first? only?] card of HOFer Ernest Blood. Fritz Knothe was a major league player, with the Braves and Phillies. Mike Hamas went on to play basketball at Penn State.
__________________
Read my blog; it will make all your dreams come true.

https://adamstevenwarshaw.substack.com/

Or not...

Last edited by Exhibitman; 02-27-2015 at 04:06 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply




Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
1948 Leaf Boxing, Basketball & Baseball from Vermont Find vthobby Ebay, Auction and other Venues Announcement- B/S/T 0 06-30-2014 09:08 PM
1961 topps ron fairly zachclose21 1950 to 1959 Baseball cards- B/S/T 7 12-21-2013 08:28 AM
Great HOF basketball find today at estate sale $2!!! theantiquetiger Net54baseball Sports (Primarily) Vintage Memorabilia Forum incl. Game Used 7 08-13-2011 12:25 PM
I find it hard to buy Basketball and Hockey card when it's Baseball season. k-dog Basketball / Cricket / Tennis Cards Forum 7 08-26-2010 05:00 PM
Important New Find - I think Archive Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 22 12-28-2008 10:00 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:12 AM.


ebay GSB