Definitive Dating of Some Allen & Ginter Cards Including N28 & N29

[Joe_G.]

It is possible to date many of the early A&G card sets through study of album redemption coupons together with excerpts from a rare surviving copy of an old weekly Tobacco Journal (May 1889 to May 1890). The Tobacco Journal entries help establish a typical sequence of events for each new card issue including an advertising banner at point of sale to entice smokers into buying their smokes. In addition to the card inserts, the cigarette packs would include a redemption coupon with details of the upcoming album of the same subject matter. These redemption coupon details sometimes included the album’s release date which was often a month or two after the cards were introduced to allow the smoker time to save up.

I will be sharing redemption coupons from my collection and several Tobacco Journal entries that support the dates assigned to the sets found below. The listed card sets fall short of covering all the A&G sets issued over 1888, 1889, and 1890 but instead represents only the sets for which evidence was found to support the assigned dates. The evidence for these dates will then follow.

Observations/Comments

• There was no one busier than A&G during the late 1880s in creating, promoting, and pushing out new card sets. The above named sets may not even account for half the sets they would issue over 3 year period leading up to ATC merger.

• There is a lot of overlap amongst the sets with A&G’s most popular brands, Richmond Straight Cut No 1 and Virginia Brights, distributing all the cards referenced here as evidenced by their banners. Lesser brands would also carry cards.

• The ability to date the N28 and N29 sets only became possible through two recent discoveries. The date assigned to N28 cards is based on a "new to the hobby" redemption coupon for the World’s Champions album (A16). The Tobacco Journal was another recent discovery which includes an interesting entry for our beloved N29 cards.

• It appears that N29 (Series 2 of Champions of the World) may have came about after seeing the popularity of N28. The other card sets to enjoy more than a single series (“Flags of All Nations” and “World’s Beauties”) seemed planned in advance with seamless transition from one to the next. The popularity of N28 may have kicked off desire for a 2nd series at a later date.

• American Indian Chiefs cards (N2), the banner, and album were very popular. Will post more of the entries for this card set if there is interest.

• The larger format cards (e.g. N43), distributed in 20 count packs, became common in 1889.

• There were far fewer sets issued after the merger. The N25 cards (Wild Animals of the World) were likely planned before the merger and were not canceled. These post-ATC merger cards would also be found in packs of Goodwin’s cigarettes.

For those interested in the details . . . here is a quick study on the known A&G redemption coupons.

Please let me know if you are aware of any I’m missing, I enjoy collecting and studying these coupons for the story they help convey. The album availability dates were printed on the early coupons as follows:

A8 (March 1st, 1888) Flags of All Nations (features N9, N10, & N11 cards)
A14 (June 1st, 1888) World’s Beauties – 1st Series (features N26 cards)
A15 (July 1st, 1888) World’s Beauties – 2nd Series (features N27 cards)
A18 (August 1st, 1888) World’s Racers (features N32 cards)
A12 (Sept. 1st, 1888) Racing Colors of the World (features N22 cards)
A5 (Sept. 1st, 1888) City Flags (features N6 cards)
A16 (Nov. 1st, 1888) World’s Champions (features N28 cards)

The list of coupons continue below minus the album dates as this was no longer included. However, a quick study allows them to be sorted and placed in proper chronological order as follows.

A3 – Birds of America (features N4 / N37 cards)
A2 – American Indian Chiefs (features N2 / N36 cards)
A20 – George Washington (no cards featured)
A9 – Game Birds of America (features N13 / N40 cards)
A17 – World’s Champions – 2nd Series (features N29 / N43 cards)
A4 – Birds of the Tropics (features N5 / N38 cards)
A7 – Fish from American Waters (features N8 cards)
A22 – Our Navy (no cards featured)

I will finish by sharing several entries from an old 19th century Tobacco Journal that helped date more of the card sets.

May 10th, 1889, page 6 – Allen & Ginter’s American Indian Chiefs Banner (G1)

June 21st, 1889, page 5 – Allen & Ginter’s Fans of the Period Banner (G6) and Cards (N7)

July 5th, 1889, page 7 – Allen & Ginter’s American Indian Chiefs Album (A2)

August 16, 1889, page 5 – Allen & Ginter 2nd Series of the World’s Champions (N29)

September 13th, 1889, page 5 – Allen & Ginter Birds of Tropics Banner (G4) and Cards (N5); Album to Follow (A4)

October 18th, 1889, page 5 – Allen & Ginter’s Fishes of the World Album (A7) and Banner (G7)

November 29th, 1889, page 5 – Allen & Ginter Types of All Nations Banner (G27); Cards (N24) and Albums to Follow

December 27th, 1889, page 5 – Allen & Ginter Sovereigns of the World Banner (G26) and Cards (N34)

March 21st, 1890, page 5 – Allen & Ginter Quadruped Album (A11)

April 18th, 1890, page 5 – Allen & Ginter Wild Animals of the World Banner (G28)

As more coupons are discovered and literature uncovered we may be able to place more sets to this timeline. While not complete I figured this work-in-progress was worth sharing at this time.

[1880nonsports]

would be worth sharing with them silly nonsport guys....

[oaks1912]

Great info Joe, and more support of the mixed sport sets being issued during overlapping years. The N-28's were clearly very popular and were likely distributed in more markets, including the West Coast where I've found more than a dozen 'original' groupings over the years... They were probably marketed for about 5 or 6 months (Oct 1888-mid-1889) and then the N-29 / N-43 came out in August 1889. I don't think there were as many printed, or perhaps sent to fewer markets. The N-29's have always been tougher, and the N-43 still tougher. I've never found an 'outside the hobby' group of N-43. All that I have purchased were from 'inside the hobby' sources... With continued research we'll probably find the same thing for N-184 Kimball, which were also distributed in the West Coast market...

[trdcrdkid]

Thanks for the great research, Joe. This article from the December 1, 1941 Card Collector's Bulletin, based on notes made by Harry Lillien from the journal Tobacco (which I guess was distinct from "Tobacco Journal"?), is also relevant here. I'm not sure why Lillien's notes include so few issues, but the dates for the A&G sets he found are consistent with your findings. Walter Corson wrote these dates by the relevant entries in his copy of the 1946 American Card Catalog, which I have. I have a nagging feeling that I've seen another early article like this that includes other dates for N card sets, but if so I couldn't find it earlier.

[insidethewrapper]

So it looks like the N29 and N43 series including 6 baseball players were issued in 1889 (late in the season). If so, the cards were designed much earlier and never corrected (Morrell - Morrill) played for Washington in 1889 and Boston in 1888 and Getzin - Getzien ( played for Indy in 1889 and Detroit in 1888). Both spelled wrong and both not team updated.

[Joe_G.]

Originally Posted by 1880nonsports

would be worth sharing with them silly nonsport guys....

Hello Henry, I was originally going to post this on the Non-Sport Forum but thought twice after seeing the angst against posts that include sports cards, particularly baseball. I am however very interested in any feedback the Non-Sport members might have, especially if they are aware of other sources such as what David shared here.

Mark, interesting info on your finds. If N28 extended into 1889 it may be the longest run for any pre-ATC A&G set which wouldn't surprise me as they are amongst the most plentiful as you pointed out. The album release (which was Nov. 1st '88) typically signaled the end of card distribution but if the set was popular why not extend distribution. Most of A&G sets only lasted a couple months and they would be replaced by the next set, seemingly targeting two sets at any given time (my timeline is incomplete, there are other sets that need to be spliced in).

David, your December 1, 1941 Card Collector's Bulletin is fabulous, thank you for posting. This early work by Harry Lillien utilizes a different source than the Tobacco Journal I studied. Most of the information lines up within days or weeks while others are off a fair bit and I'd like to study further. Looks like I need to plan a visit to NYPL to study Harry's sources (if I cannot access them online). Really cool stuff, I'm going to modify my timeline a bit. Please let me know if you locate another source that dates nineteenth century cards.

Mike, yep, the N29 cards were certainly based on earlier images of Morrill and Getzien. Both the N28 Bennett and N29 Getzien are based on photos taken in 1888 (only year Detroit had striped jersey).

[autograf]

Fantastic work Joe.....I literally played around YESTERDAY with the PSA Pop report for A&G sets and haven't finished with SGC but there are some oddities in the PSA Pop report.....which is probably an understatement.

Your dates and theirs agree on........
N5,N6,N7,N8,N11,N13,N21,N22,N24,N26,N27,N28

You differ on......
N2 (you 1889, them 1888)
N4 (you 1889, them 1888)
N9 (you 1888, them 1887)
N10 (you 1888, them 1890)
N25 (you 1890, them 1888)
N29 (you 1889, them 1888)
N34 (you 1890, them 1889)

The other sets they have dated.....
1886....N16,N17
1887....N1,N3,N35
1888....N15,N18,N19,N20,N31,N33,N36
1889....N14,N34,N38,N39,N42,N43
1890....N23,N30,N37,N40,N44
1891....N12

Not sure what the source of their data is. I know there are ATC pages on dates of issuance for some of the 20th century tobacco sets but not sure if they exist for the 19th century. I have a dozen or so JPG's of those pages for some nonsports and T206 sets.

The PSA census of graded N1-N44 cards is outlined in the picture below.......

Almost exactly 10-1 small to large A&G cards graded by PSA. Not sure what SGC or the combined look will yield but I'd assume something similar. The oversized format cards are super tough which Mark and you already identified. If you assume that submissions are rational, then the small sized cards are 10x more plentiful. As a collector of all the A&G sets, my totals are about 10x small to large as well (1140/133).

Interestingly, looking at the pop reports, on the small-sized A&G's, 5's and 6's are approximately half of the cards graded. For the larger-sized A&G's that census drops a notch to 4's and 5's. Anyone who's graded some can probably attest to the difficulty of the oversized cards.

[Joe_G.]

Tom, interesting data, thank you for sharing. I would be interested in the ratio of small to large cards for only those sets that had large cards. I also suspect a greater percentage of the large cards have been graded as they are a little more valuable. Your 10:1 ratio may become 5:1 and the actual number if we could combine graded + raw might be more like 7:1.

While Preferred Stock No. 1 certainly had a 20 count pack that the large cards were inserted in I'm not sure if the other brands did. Many of the other brands are only known as 10 count slide & shell (small cards). Can you share the results of your study for just N29/N43, and then combine all the sets that were issued in small and large?

Great stuff.

Also, I give zero credit to dating of any sets to third party graders. They simply follow the price guides. Many of these dates were guesses by our hobby pioneer's (Burdick etc.) during the early days of our hobby. They did a remarkable job cataloguing the sets but often fell short on the distribution dates. The only hope to get 3rd party graders to correct the dates would be to first correct the price guides. I know who to work with on the baseball side but don't know which non-sport guide is considered "The Source".

[autograf]

Your theory on small sets with corresponding big sets was, of course, correct. The number wound up at 3.4 to 1 though on those 10 small sets v. 10 large corresponding sets. You can see below.



The individual sets are interesting though.....there are 8x more N2's graded than N36's which I figured would be lower. On the other hand, there are more N44 World's Decoration large format graded than N30 small format for a ratio of 0.7 to 1; the only one with a sub-1 ratio.

I also did a ranking by total PSA population by issue, so you can see the most popular issues or most graded issues (in all grades total). No surprise but N28 is far and away the winner in that race with N2 a distant second. And then only three other issues with more than 1000 graded for N11, N20 and N29.



Kind of surprised N9 flags aren't a little higher than they were with so many back variants and the Fancy cards and other issues. Also interesting that N11 States were so high and N20 chickens. Guess there are a lot of chicken collectors out there.