O/T The concept of a non-sports "rookie card"

[Peter_Spaeth]

Does this make sense only in the sports context, or is it reasonable to call a musician/actor/other historical figure's first card a "rookie card" as well?

For instance, this 1971 David Bowie, or 1972 Michael Jackson.

There are countless examples, many of which are truly hard to find.

[jthorst75]

Peter, you've been doing it for years. Please by all means-keep it going, you're my education I believe their isn't(shouldn't be) another term for it when it comes to any card related hobby��

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by jthorst75

Peter, you've been doing it for years. Please by all means-keep it going, you're my education I believe their isn't(shouldn't be) another term for it when it comes to any card related hobby��

I guess one difference is that the "rookie" concept in sports is tied to a season, whereas in non-sports it's just a question of when someone got around to making a card that can be dated, but I don't find the term objectionable.

A few more. 1968 Stevie Wonder. 1961 Aretha Franklin. 1965 Bob Dylan.

[Peter_Spaeth]

1963 Patsy Cline. 1959 Johnny Cash. 1971 (rare) Willie Nelson.

[Peter_Spaeth]

1959 Chuck Berry. 1975 (rare) Bruce Springsteen. 1967 Dolly Parton.

[jthorst75]

I had to go looking for a Johnny Cash of my own on the bay and noticed two of the listings mentioning RC in the title...

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by jthorst75

I had to go looking for a Johnny Cash of my own on the bay and noticed two of the listings mentioning RC in the title...

Just be careful because, as in some sports like soccer, the designations are frequently wrong and to make it worse there are certain cards PSA badly misdates.

[jthorst75]

Hell, even a topps Sideshow Bob got in on the act

[Peter_Spaeth]

1935 Duke Ellington. 1975 (only one I have ever seen) Joni Mitchell. 1967 Waylon Jennings.

[JustinD]

Outside of sports I always preferred the term “first card” which seemed to be the description used in collecting I remember before Beckett added XRC to the lexicon. But honestly it doesn’t bother me in the least to see rookie card, I really like your listings with these because I always learn about something I usually know nothing about.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Switching gears. 1937 Humphrey Bogart. 1939 Ronald Reagan. 1950 Marlon Brando.

[Peter_Spaeth]

1936 Ingrid Bergman. 1939 Judy Garland. 1945 Frank Sinatra.

[Peter_Spaeth]

1954 Peter Sellers. 1964 Sean Connery. 1976 Sylvester Stallone.

[frankbmd]

I like the concept. I am waiting to be discovered and haven't appeared in my first movie yet. I guess all my cards would be considered pre-rookie cards.

[Peter_Spaeth]

1936 Rita Hayworth. 1950 Marilyn Monroe. 1964 Catherine Deneuve.

[Exhibitman]

The problem is that defining a rookie card outside sport involves a variety of cards and card adjacent items from all over the place. Often the earliest card will be a postcard or a promo card. For example, the earliest Marx Brothers card I know of is the vaudeville Exhibit card from 1926.



For recording artists the earliest card is usually a promo item from the label.




Or a studio card for an actor:



That’s all logistics. Where I think it goes too far is RC on a fictional character. Umm, no. They don’t exist.

[nsaddict]

Thanks for creating this post. I’m heavy into non-sports. I firmly believe in “first card”. The notion of a Ulysses Grant rookie bugs the shit out of me. Some eBay seller was offering a 1932 Caramel Washington “rookie”. George actually has cards about 50 years prior. IMO, it has trickled down from sports cards as non-sport has gained traction in the last several years. 1964 MLK first card.

[Peter_Spaeth]

1901 Winston Churchill. 1935 Queen Elizabeth. 1961 JFK.

[Peter_Spaeth]

1952 Chagall, Matisse, Picasso.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

1901 Winston Churchill. 1935 Queen Elizabeth. 1961 JFK.

Would any royalty have two?
One as prince/princess and a second as King/queen?

Or would that be treated more like a draft pick card or minor league card?

Oh the possibilities.

[Exhibitman]

If fictional characters can have RCs, how about inanimate objects?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by steve B

Would any royalty have two?
One as prince/princess and a second as King/queen?

Or would that be treated more like a draft pick card or minor league card?

Oh the possibilities.

LOL. Here is her first as Queen in any event. 1952.

[Peter_Spaeth]

1964 Beatles. 1968 Doors. 1970 Led Zeppelin.

[Exhibitman]

[Peter_Spaeth]

1980. Pretty sure this is his first.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

LOL. Here is her first as Queen in any event. 1952.

Now.... can a "rookie card" be local?
Like say Ichiro. He would have a Japanese rookie card and a US rookie card.

The Queen was queen for a variety of semi independent countries.
So a Wales rookie, a Scotland rookie....depending on where the card was issued. There are probably ones where there is no locally issued card.

[steve B]

And yes, I'm a _ trouble maker at times.

[Bored5000]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

1964 Beatles. 1968 Doors. 1970 Led Zeppelin.

I never really looked to see what cards were produced during Jim Morrison's lifetime. I know Jimi Hendrix has several options from before his death. What about Janis Joplin? I could only find a 1975 Panini as her earliest card when looking her up a while back, but I would have thought she would have something earlier.

Peter, do you know if the 1975 Panini is Joplin's first card, five years after she died?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Janis has a 1974 card but as far as I know nothing during her liefetime.

[Bored5000]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Janis has a 1974 card but as far as I know nothing during her liefetime.

Thanks for the reply, Peter. I thought maybe I was missing something issued during her lifetime, but I had never seen anything. I am surprised it took four years after her death before anything was issued.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Bored5000

Thanks for the reply, Peter. I thought maybe I was missing something issued during her lifetime, but I had never seen anything. I am surprised it took four years after her death before anything was issued.

There are lots of holes on the nonsports side. But if you want a Janis lifetime, I think you need to go Type 1 photo.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Speaking of Jimi, here is a first year card, from 1968.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Three Dylans 1964-65.

[Peter_Spaeth]

1957 Buddy Holly and the Crickets. 1959 Kingston Trio. 1969 Simon and Garfunkel.

[D. Bergin]

This is the earliest card I could find of Neil Armstrong

1963 Gelles-Widmer "Astronauts - Space Cards"

He was a late civilian addition to the Gemini Program and not as heralded at the time as the military test pilots in the program, so he made a group shot in this set, but doesn't look like he made any of the other various NASA based sets at the time, including the 1963 Topps "Astronauts" set.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Also from that set.

[JustinD]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

This is the earliest card I could find of Neil Armstrong

1963 Gelles-Widmer "Astronauts - Space Cards"

He was a late civilian addition to the Gemini Program and not as heralded at the time as the military test pilots in the program, so he made a group shot in this set, but doesn't look like he made any of the other various NASA based sets at the time, including the 1963 Topps "Astronauts" set.

This looks like an amazing set! Looks like a new search to add to my eBay presets.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Also from that set.

That's a nice one to, of the Mercury program guys. I think most of them also had their own individual cards within that set, along with also being included in the Topps/Popsicle set of the same year.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

That's a nice one to, of the Mercury program guys. I think most of them also had their own individual cards within that set, along with also being included in the Topps/Popsicle set of the same year.

Yes, I sold the individual cards here a year ago perhaps.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Here are the Topps cards.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by JustinD

This looks like an amazing set! Looks like a new search to add to my eBay presets.

It's a great set. I love it. I pick one up whenever I see it for a reasonable price.

They're about the size of Tallboys I think. Very nice design.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Here are the Topps cards.

Those are awesome!

I've had some over the years, but never in nice of condition as those.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Here is the Topps group card.

[shagrotn77]

I personally think the term "rookie" should apply to sports cards only, but it's no big deal either way. "First card" or FC may be more appropriate for non-sports cards.

[Peter_Spaeth]

1957 Little Richard. 1959 Sam Cooke. 1966 Marvin Gaye.

[wdmullins]

Bogart is in an exhibit set featuring stills from movies in 1935 and 1936, and the cards are probably from 1936.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by wdmullins

Bogart is in an exhibit set featuring stills from movies in 1935 and 1936, and the cards are probably from 1936.

Do you have images? I was not aware of anything earlier than the 1937 card I posted above.

[wdmullins]

See here:
http://www.moviecard.com/zamerican/e...bit-gmenP.html

Note that Bette Davis, Lionel Barrymore, Chester Morris, Cesar Romero, Lloyd Nolan, and James Cagney are also all in this set - perhaps their first cards?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by wdmullins

See here:
http://www.moviecard.com/zamerican/e...bit-gmenP.html

Note that Bette Davis, Lionel Barrymore, Chester Morris, Cesar Romero, Lloyd Nolan, and James Cagney are also all in this set - perhaps their first cards?

Bette goes back at least to 1933.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Found a major grail. Cost me next to nothing. 1952 promo card of Hank Williams, his only "card" issued during his lifetime to the best of my knowledge.