PSA qualifier & pricing

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Posted By: jeff s

This is an area in which I know little, so I turn to you for help:

How would you price a vintage PSA 6 card with the (MC) designation?

My best guess is that it should be roughly in line with PSA 5 pricing, but like I said, not my area of expertise.

Thanks in advance for your help.

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Posted By: Tom Boblitt

that's pretty fair. Depends on the issue. Might still sell for PSA6 prices if really scarce.

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Posted By: Elliot

I think it would be closer in price to a 3 or 4. If it was OC then I would think closer to a 5. The MC designation is the kiss of death.

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Posted By: jay behrens

what is MC? miscut?

Jay

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Posted By: MW

Jay --

Yes, "MC" is the PSA designation for miscut and it is usually applied to cards that are 90/10 or 100/0 centered. Elliot is pretty close with his estimate of value.

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Posted By: David Vargha

Typically sell for less than the unqualified card one grade below it. Very few cards at the PSA 6 level will get "OC" for centering as the centering requirements get far less stringent at that level. A PSA 8 OC that is centered to meet the standards of an unqualified PSA 6 would sell for a Psa 6 price, with perhaps a small premium for the coner and surface condition.

However, centering and corners seem to be two of the greatest concerns of many collectors today, so a "MC" designation is almost the kiss of death. a PSA 6 MC would be very fortunate to attract PSA 4 pricing. Many collectors completely eschew buying cards with qualifiers to the point that you may make more money on such a card in unslabbed condition or re-slabbed at the lower grade it qualifies for as not having the OC, ST, etc. designation.

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Posted By: David

Why does PSA use qualifiers? Perhaps it's just me, but I thought grades (Good, Very Good, Mint, etc) were supposed to be determined by things like centering and marks. Does PSA have 10 (RC), meaning 'Mint but with rounded corners?' Or 6 (HCM), meaning 'ExMt but Half of Card is Missing'?

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Posted By: David

My point being, that if I was going to give someone good money to grade my card (Which, of course, is more than unlikely as I actually own a Beckett Monthly and can read), I would hope that they would actually give the card a grade.

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Posted By: TBob

on their grading. I have seen PSA 5 T207 Lowdermilks that are 5-95 and no MC designation. It is a known fact that almost EVERY Lowdermilk is going to be between 0-100 and 10-90 but according to their standards they should be receiving an "OC" or "MC".

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Posted By: David Vargha

For VG/EX and EX -- 85/15

For VG and below -- 90/10

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Posted By: Bruce Moreland

Qualified cards are an interesting idea that should have stayed an idea rather than a grading policy.

It is nice to think that the grading system can be tweaked so that it tells you what is wrong with the card, but your post highlights the problem perfectly -- you can't properly price the card.

OC cards of the vintage I am familiar with, meaning 50's, tend to sell weakly as if they are a grade lower. If you have a PSA-8(OC), it will sell for somewhat less than what you'd get for a PSA-7.

I think that this is realistic if not completely reasonable, since it's hard to call a card centered (sometimes) 85/15 NM.

MC is much worse than OC. OC cards range from pretty nice (sometimes even meeting the standard for the next lower grade), to pretty terrible (I've seen 9(OC)'s that are like 85/15 or 90/10).

MC cards are always terrible. They are very OC and sometimes tilted. They have dramatically reduced eye appeal.

If I had a card that was EXMT was far as corners and other non-centering features went, and was OC 100/0, I wouldn't begin to think that the card deserved a downgrade of only one grade. So EX is nowhere close in this case.

Is VGEX right? That's a downgrade of two grades, which might make sense if we say that OC is worth a grade and a fraction, but I'd think that even more is justified.

So perhaps the answer is VG. The corners are no great shakes or it wouldn't have gotten a 6, and the 100/0 is an extreme detriment to eye appeal. A well centered card with significant corner wear (VGEX) looks better, as does a nice card with a wrinkle (VGEX).

bruce

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Posted By: warshawlaw

I have a whole collection of PSA 8 o/c cards. They so brutally devalue really nice cards. They are a stupid policy that should be scrapped, but they do offer collectors a chance for really sharp cards at bargain bin prices. Bust em out and send em to SGC

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Posted By: Bruce Moreland

Have you done this recently? If so, what happened?

Let's discuss an 8(OC) centered 80/20. This is the kind of card that you'd pay something less than "7" price for, but PSA will not put it in a 7 holder.

I have seen plenty of examples of this type of card in SGC NM holders, but this appears to be contrary to SGC's grading policy now, which is actually claimed to be more severe than PSA's regarding centering.

http://www.sgccard.com/

To get to the grading standard, click the "About SGC" tab, and then "Grading Scale" in the tab. Their standard for NM is 70/30, while PSA will sometimes allow 75/25.

bruce

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Posted By: Todd (nolemmings)

I could ramble on this topic for quite awhile, but want to make one point. As I see it, the only good served by a qualifier is to advise a buyer of a condition that might interest him if he could not see it. In other words, I know what a miscut, off center or off focus card looks like if I'm shown the card, but might use the qualifier info if I was buying sight unseen (I know, a dangerous practice).
That being said, were you folks aware that apparently PSA will issue a grade without a qualifier if you specifically request it? I learned this from the CU board. Thus, for example, an otherwise 8OC would be slabbed in a PSA7 or PSA6 no qualifier holder. I think this shows great inconsistency and is potentially misleading.
I bought a Boston Store Marquard PSA7 a couple months back that had no back scan. The back is miscut (I have tried to upload a scan to this board but can't get it to work). Either PSA does not consider this to be a factor in its grading (doubtful), or it reduced the overall grade but left out the qualifier. I know most of you would basically spit on the whole grading process, but for those who buy PSA cards, beware of these(as well as the other well documented) pitfalls.
Regards..............Todd

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Posted By: jay behrens

I remember a 1915 CJ Joe Jax that was eBay and the seller said that the card was originally an 8OC, but resubmitted and asked for a grade with no qualifiers. He got a 4.

Jay

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Posted By: Julie Vognar

that i bought through the mail after a 15 minute talk with the seller, I think he said ex-mint, had no bottom border.

"This card doesn't have a bottom border, " I said when I called him before I sent it back.
"I don't think we discussed centering," he said.

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Posted By: David

I had a Willie Mays that was so miscut that it was a Nellie Fox.

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Posted By: vorthian

There were two N28 Sullivan's in Andy Madec's most recent auction. One was a weak PSA 8 and the other was an 8oc.

The PSA 8 sold for $1931.
The PSA 8oc sold for $439.

The Oct. SMR has these values...

5 - 300
6 - 450
7 - 750
8 - 1525
9 - 3000

While many people avoid qualified cards like the plague, there are some out there that just love them.