Help with Black Team id - 1915-25 era? GIANTS

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Posted By: runscott

I purchased a photo the other day that includes the following players (plus others - this is just part of it). Does this uniform look familiar to any of you? Scratched at the bottom of the photo is "Leroy S" and below that "Dooley".

Thanks,Scott

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Posted By: RobertS

While I don't know their uniforms, here is a sampling of "Giants" teams from the Negro Leagues that I have found in "Only The Ball Was White" by Robert Peterson:

1920s:
--Chicago American Giants (Negro National League)
--Chicago Giants
--St. Louis Giants (Negro Ntnl. League)
--Brooklyn Royal Giants (Eastern Colored League)
--Bacharach Giants (Eastern Colored League)
--Lincoln Giants (Eastern Colored League)
--Harrisburg Giants (Eastern Colored League)
--Nashville Elite Giants (Negro National League)

1930s:
--Cole's American Giants (Chicago -- Negro National League)
--Columbus Elite Giants (Negro National League)
--Washington Elie Giants (Negro Natnl. League)
--Baltimore Elite Giants (Negro Ntnl. League)

Perhaps you can do some Internet searching on some of these names to see what you yield...

Hope this helps...

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Posted By: Mrc32

Well don't know if you know this or not, but Leroy S. could be Satchel Paige. His first name was obviously Leroy. He looks like the guy in the middle on the top row.

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Posted By: Jimmy Leiderman

Maybe they can help...

http://www.nlbm.com/intro.html

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Posted By: Kenny Cole

I think the photo is probably too early for Paige to be in it. The guy on the bottom right looks a whole lot like Pete Hill. I'm pretty sure its him. He finished his career as a player/manager in 1925. He played for the Philadelphia Giants, the Leland Giants, and the Chicago American Giants.

The guy on the top right resembles Rube Currie, but I'm not sure. He played from 1920 to 1928. I'm also not as sure about the player on the top left, but my first thought is that it is Ed Wesley. It also kind of looks like Eufemio Abreu, a Cuban catcher who played in the Negro Leagues for a long time.

If I'm correct about Hill, the photo is probably from the early 20's at the very latest. That's just a touch before Satchel showed up. Satchel's debut was 1927, I believe.

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Posted By: Mrc32

This link says that Paige played from 1924-1967

And he played for the following teams: Mobile Tigers, Chattanooga Black Lookout New Orleans Pelicans, Birmingham Black Barons, Baltimore Black Sox, Nashville Elite GIANTS, Cleveland Cubs, St. Louis Stars, Pittsburgh Crawford's, Trujillo All-Stars, Kansas City Monarchs, Memphis Red Sox, New York Black Yankees, East Chicago GIANTS, Paige's All-Stars, Philadelphia Stars, Chicago American GIANTS, Cleveland Indians, St. Louis Browns, Kansas City Athletics, Miami Marlin, Portland Beavers, Peninsula, Springfield Redbirds, Atlanta Braves, and Indianapolis Clowns.

http://www.nlbm.com/SatchelPaige/satchelpaige.htm

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Posted By: jay behrens

There was also a Cuban X Giants. Not sure what league they belonged to, but it was another Black team.

Jay

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Posted By: runscott

Curiously, "Leroy S." is scratched directly below the top middle player (but at bottom of photo), "Dooley" is below and to the left, under that guy on the bottom right. I didn't notice the writing at first - it's faint, but showed up when I held the photo at an angle to the light.

But I'm fairly sure the photo is from the late teens or early '20s, based on the way the "managers,etc" are dressed in the full photo, and I didn't think that guy looked like Satchel Paige.

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Posted By: runscott

my perspective is screwed up

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Posted By: Ryan Christoff

Definitely not Paige. Pete Hill, Rube Currie, and Ed Wesley are also not in this picture.

-Ryan

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Posted By: Mrc32

Scott-
I bet you 10 bucks if you emailed someone at the Negro Leagues Baseball Museum a copy of the picture, they could ID the team in a heartbeat and might be able to ID the players in it as well.

Good Luck
Michael

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Posted By: Ben

Regardless of who the players actually are, the expressiveness of their faces is truly awe-inspiring. Gives you a glimpse into what it was like to be a black man living in America in the early 20th century. I'm gonna check out your website to see if the whole photo is posted there. Nice piece Scott.

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Posted By: runscott

I'll do that - it looks like the thoughts on i.d.'s are all over the board. I don't know what any of the guys mentioned in this thread actually look like, so your suggestions seems like the best option.

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Posted By: runscott

I have never seen photos of any of these players and have no ideas on the subject. But here's a photo of Pete Hill I found on the internet, and I agree with Kenny that the guy in my photo strongly resembles him:

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Posted By: Ryan Christoff

Scott,

I'm a big fan of Pete Hill and have seen numerous photos of him. I admit there is a slight resemblance (I would not say a "strong" resemblance) but nonetheless, it is definitely NOT Pete Hill.

The picture you posted is of him is when he was the player/manager of the 1920 Detroit Stars. This was near the end of his career when he was around 40. The guy in your photo is much younger.

If it's not just wishful thinking about it being Hill, please explain to me at what point he added the huge cleft in his chin? Or at which point did he get rid of it?

Bottom line: not Pete Hill.

Still a great photo.

-Ryan

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Posted By: runscott

To illustrate how ignorant I am about Negro League players, I had not even heard of Pete Hill until Kenny mentioned him in this thread. So I very much appreciate your input - everything you guys have posted in brand new stuff for me.

I spent about an hour digging around the internet looking for clues on these players and came up empty, but I still like the picture and the fruitless research I've done has at least stimulated my interest in this area of baseball history. I also didn't realize how much of a tie there was between the Negro Leagues in America, and Cuban baseball.

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Posted By: Kenny Cole

I've looked at more than a few photos of Pete Hill myself. I have seen a photo of him that is damn near identical in terms of the pose, even to the cleft in his chin. I don't know where, but I'm going through my stuff to see if I can find it. Ryan and I will just have to disagree on this one. I'm pretty sure that it's Pete Hill. If so, thats a hell of a photo.

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Posted By: runscott

left-click on buttons along border of photo to see enlargements of each player:

http://runscott.homestead.com/NegroLeague.html