Would you leave Pos, Neg, or Neut. feedback if you were the buyer?

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Posted By: Gilbert Maines

The short story is that I bought a 20s Exhibit card, was unhappy with it when I got it in person; contacted the seller and he agreed to take it back for a refund.

Although that does not sound bad, the long story is:

The seller has a feedback rating of 99.5% with 6406 positives. He described the card as "Original 1920s Exhibit card in vg/ex condition". The card was trimmed top to bottom and side to side by one eighth inch or more. I did not scrutinize the scan because of his good feedback + I'm not sure I could tell from the scan. But there was instant recognition in person.

After failing to get a response to two e-mails, I got him on the phone and he told me that it couldn't be trimmed because he has a whole set which measures the same. He agreed to accept the card back when I made it clear that I was aware of the facts regarding the size of Exhibit cards.

+, -, or neut.?

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Posted By: Julie

money. I figured, neither of us would leave feedback, but he left me GOOD feedback, about a month later, so I returned the favor, saying he was a good an honest dealer. End of story.

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Posted By: warshawlaw

I got a similarly trimmed card and had some difficulty extracting a refund. I'd hit with a neutral if he refunds. Obviously, wait until after you have the $$ to act.

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Posted By: leon

I'd just leave a positive and move on. Too many other issues in life....you got the refund albeit a little more involved than it might should have been...regards

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Posted By: Dan Koteles

wouldn't leave anything . i think if an item is not described correctly an additional 5 or 10 bucks should be sent for the time wasted and returned postage.

I priority mail or overnight every seller , so....I expect pretty quick return treatment.

one day ,yes one day...I will sell on ebay and my credits will be earned just like my buying postives are....there are some that could use an ethics lesson.

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Posted By: Kevin Cummings

The guy could have been a jerk and not refunded your money and then you wouldn't be asking the board whether you should be leaving negative feedback.

Bottom line is you got a refund and he did right by you.

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Posted By: Ted

To me, if you got your money back, you have no real loss. I would just leave no feedback. As a seller I always leave positive feedback when I mail the card so there is no temptation to "retaliate" for anything less than positive. I have seen some jerks leave negative feedback because the other party did not give them any feedback at all. Go figure.

Remember, to err is human, to forgive devine. Give him the benefit of the doubt.

Ted
He who so shall, so shall he who!

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Posted By: RayB

Collect some 20's Exhibits myself. Which set are we refering to?
I would recommend not feeding back in any way.

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Posted By: steve k

A neg or a neutral wouldn't be correct here if you get your money back. Either positive feedback or no feedback at all is appropriate. Myself - I would simply leave no feedback.

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Posted By: Glenn

I'd leave a positive feedback to let other potential buyers know what happened: "Card had been altered, but buyer issued full refund" or something along those lines.

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Posted By: jay behrens

I'd say leave a positive if you get the money back, but note in the feedback that he failed to note the fact that the card was trimmed

Jay

I've just reached Upper Lower Class. I am now officially a babe magnet for poor chicks.

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Posted By: warshawlaw

I don't think anyone considers receiving a bad card and getting a refund to be a positive experience. I certainly don't. The whole point of a neutral feedback is to let future buyers know that there was a problem but that your problem was resolved in a manner that did not leave you at a loss but also did not result in your receiving the benefit of the transaction. If the seller screws you out of something, leave a negative. If the seller makes good, leave a positive. I'll give some examples I experienced:

(1) I bought a supposedly pristine set of 1976 Topps Star Trek cards from vending. Sure enough, all of the typically wax and product damaged cards showed signs of wax and gum stains. I demanded a refund or a make-good, the seller sent me replacement cards that were up to snuff, apologized for sending the wrong set. Positive.

(2) I bought several trimmed 1920s Exhibit cards. The seller refunded my money. Neutral.

(3) I bought a fake card, seller refunded my money but without my postage costs, leaving me to eat shipping both ways. Neutral or negative feedback merited.

(4) I won five cheap cards at auction, seller sold the key one out from under me to someone else but made good by refunding my purchase price on the others and telling me to keep them. positive.

(5) Seller shipped in an unpadded, unstiffened envelope and the near mint cards arrived in vg condition after the USPS's tender loving care was over. Seller refunded my money, told me to keep the damaged cards. positive.

(6) I sold a card that was damaged in shipping (thanks PSA for the flimsy holder). I refunded the purchase price and shipping costs.

The same holds true with any business. You either satisfy the customer or you lose the customer; ebay just happens to have a mechanism for providing a customer satisfaction feedback on every deal. SGC messed up an order of mine and not only redid it for free with free shipping but comped me a similar number of submissions for my troubles. I'd give that a positive feedback. PSA messed up my order, fought me all the way on make-goods, ultimately did make good. I'd give that a neutral at best because it was such a pain in the ass. Who do you think became my exclusive grading service? I lost a client yesterday because a court process is taking too long for their tastes. Not my fault the judge is a slacker; my fault for not explaining the process well enough so that the client felt informed and in full understanding of what might transpire.

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Posted By: Gilbert Maines

RayB: the card was a 1926 (blue) Bottomley Exhibit. If you want contact information for the dealer, please e=mail me at identify7@aol.com

Thanks.

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Posted By: Elliot

Adam, How did you edit your post before it was posted? 11:37 a.m. vs. 11:43

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Posted By: warshawlaw

I'm THAT good

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Posted By: Gilbert Maines

Does that work on the craps tables?

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Posted By: warshawlaw

If it did I wouldn't be doing this crap (lawyering)

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Posted By: Gilbert Maines

But not as thick as my head, it seems.

Here is the update: After returning the card to the dealer, I continued thinking about it and researching it. It now seems that I had incorrectly attributed the card. It was a blue Bottomley Exhibit (spelled just like that). But my books state that there was no blue Bottomley Exhibit issued with the last name containing an "e".

Weren't Exhibits somehow remanufactured in the '80s? Or do I remember that wrong. I really do not know what I was sold, but Im presently thinking that Im real glad to be out of it.

I got the refund check today - I suppose it will clear. The dealer resold the card. I think it is a fake. He said that he had a whole set, all alike. He has great feedback and I think he is selling fake cards.

What to do?

1) wait until the check clears
2) ?

Thanks for your consideration,
Gilbert

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Posted By: leon

Cash the check, buy something you like, and move on. Just one persons opinion. It doesn't sound like he knowingly did anything too wrong..

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Posted By: martin dalziel

Hey, you asked........

the events as i understand them

Guy has an auction, you bid sight unseen, you get card and realise you should have paid more attention, you think the card is trimmed, you contact the guy and he agrees to refund, he sends refund, you can't find the card in your book, you don't know what you bought, the card is now a fake, and you want to know what do next.

I can only assume your question relates to whether to give him outstanding feedback comments or just good feedback comments. (sarc.)

At this point I'd let it go and move on.

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Posted By: Julie

one gorgeous C57, later sold me two lousy '69 O-P-Chee--I mean, they were supposed to be "ex-mint," and the had the softest corners I ever saw. They do scads of business. It would take somethiung pretty bad for me to leave bad feedback. A deaf guy once sold me a supposed team photo with Hoy and Mack in it, snd it looked like stacked cordwood (bad computer reproduction--I knew it wasn't an original photo--but I thought it was supposed to be a PHOTO!). I left him good feedback, and chewed him out in an e-mail. I mean, deaf is not blind!

I know how bad feedback affects me when I read it, so I'd be real mad before I left it for someone.

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Posted By: Gilbert Maines

I guess I am not a pacifist.

Yes, I did not research the card before I bought it. I assumed that a seller with a good feedback record would not sell something questionable. I guess I hoped that there was some situation in which I could be lazy and trust in someone else to be responsible.

I really don't want to have to verify everything I buy.

So I guess that I have to purchase only slabbed material. Ok.

But the non-pacifist in me wants other collectors to not be duped by sellers who are either irresponsible or fraudulent. I rationalize that a buyer can be lost to our hobby easily through being unable to reliably purchase legitimate material. And I further think that each buyer in our hobby supports and strengthens the pricing of cards. The more buyers, the better card performance is.

I will figure out which course of action best suits my feelings. Right now, I realize that if I just go on about my collecting:
1) I will continue with no negative feedback
2) A seller will reap profit at a cost to us all.

Comments?

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Posted By: leon

When I said I was a pacifist it was because it didn't seem like, in the end, you were caused harm.. except a poor experience. What profit did this seller make off of you? He said he had a whole group like the one you bought so unless he was knowingly trying to defraud lot's of people (doubtful) then it was still an honest mistake. Maybe you could give him a positive with a less than positive comment? Something like "seller made good on bad card he sold".....but again, you need to do what you feel comfortable with. If, in your heart, you feel he deserves a neg or neut then by all means go for it....good luck and let us know the final disposition....

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Posted By: Howie

It doesn't sound like you know too much about early Exhibit cards, so I don't think it's fair that you accuse the guy of selling fakes. Even after inspection you didn't know for sure if the card you got was real-fake-trimmed-okay. How the name was spelled on a checklist can be an error. You might have returned a card that was okay. You don't know for sure so I'd give the seller a break.

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Posted By: Gilbert Maines

Howie: Your assessment is absolutely correct. Exhibit cards are not items which I routinely buy. So I am more apt to make an error with these cards than with some others, and I did.

When I got the card from the seller it was much smaller (1/8" t-b + s-s) than a typical Exhibit. On that basis alone, the card was unacceptable. At that time I did not consider the possibility that the card was not manufactured in the 20s.

Later I noticed in two price guides the apparent discrepency which I described. Is it possible that I am in error Howie? Yes, it is. Is it possible that the seller is mistaken or a fraud, Howie? Yes, it is.

Is it premature to draw conclusions, including giving the seller a break? Yes, it is.

To some though Howie, this occurance is not worthy of further assessment.

I have not made the statement that the seller has behaved fraudulently. My current plan is to do the required research in order to establish whether the card is a legitimate ESC 20s issuance (while waiting for his check to clear). And if the card was not made during that period, provide the evidence to the seller. If the seller then continues to sell cards which are improperly attributed, his behavior defines the term.

Will I then make any statements about the seller? Will my feedback window of opportunity have expired? Will I take other actions? Tune in next week for the continuing soap opera of futility.

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Posted By: dan mckee

NO FEEDBACK at all. He refunded but you had to work to get it.

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Posted By: Will

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