1894 Alpha Engraving

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Posted By: Jimi

I just think this set is gorgeous! I have never seen one available on Ebay, and I'm just getting familiar with the auction houses, so I'm not sure if they've been around much. What is the market like for them? Really pricey if they become available? Does anyone have one (available or not) that I could see scans of both the front and back (love the backs!)

Jimi

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Posted By: Darren J. Duet

Yeah, what jimi said.

I would certainly be interested in high quality reproductions of these engravings as well.

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Posted By: Andy Baran

All of the known Alpha Photo Engraving cards are owned by a single collector. Unless he decides to sell, or new ones are found, the chance of anyone else owning even a single card from this set is 0%. He is a member of this board, so I'm sure that he will chime in. He has also created some high quality reprints of the set which he sells on ebay from time to time.

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Posted By: zach

As far as the market goes there really isn't one. There is one set known and thats it. very nice cards though

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Posted By: leon

He's on a hiatus after his last "Thrilla in Manilla" on the board....

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Posted By: Andy Baran

Oh well

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Posted By: Jimi

...that I heard that the set was broken up and that someone had a couple of them. Not true?

Jimi

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Posted By: Hal Lewis

Not true.

Dan McKee has them all... and won't sell me any!!

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Posted By: zach

Almost, but Dan owns all but 2. Keeler and another player I think. Still very nice.

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Posted By: Andy Baran

Believe it or not, the set was actually broken up at one time, and Dan was able to acquire all of the cards to put it back together. I still believe that there are other cards in the set that either did not survive or are yet to be discovered. The most prominent of these "could be" cards is Willie Keeler. If one exists, I sure hope that I am able to find it before Dan or Hal!

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Posted By: Hal Lewis

Andy is correct, as always!

The exact same images on the Alpha cards are the ones that also appear on my 1894 Orioles Cabinet...

so the assumption is that Alpha Photo at one time took these pictures of ALL the Orioles in their Sunday best.

This would have included Keeler for sure:



Unfortunately, nobody has found the Keeler Alpha Engraving card yet!

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Posted By: Hal Lewis

14 Alpha cards in the Catalog...

16 Orioles on the Cabinet.

Willie Keeler & Boileryard Clarke (GREAT NAME) are on the cabinet but not the Alpha set (yet).

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Posted By: zach

Ya I didn't mean to say they existed I guess, but it is more than likely that they do....somewhere. I also knew that it was broken up and pieced back together....an amazing collecting accomplishment imo.

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Posted By: Hal Lewis

I think they certainly DID exist at one time.

Lord only knows if they ever survived past 1895.

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Posted By: MikeB

Hello Hal, I am fairly new to the board and have only posted a few times.
Are ther more of the cabinets like the one you showed?
Thanks,
Mike

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Posted By: Hal Lewis

If you mean EXACTLY like the one above (same team, same year)...

there are probably only 3 of them still known to exist.


If you are asking whether other teams from other years had large TEAM cabinet cards back in the old days...

YES, there are a lot out there, and they are pretty cool!

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Posted By: barrysloate

Unlike photographs such as Joseph Halls where the team sat to be photographed, any composite team photos such as Hal's 1894 Orioles or the 1873 Red Stockings were actually photos of other photos. To make a team composite, each of the players had to be photographed and then these images would be laid out to be artistically reshot. Thus, every Oriole player had to exist individually; however, that does not mean for certainty that each was taken from the Alpha engraving series. Thus, if two players have not been found, there is a possibility that they do not exist.

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Posted By: Jimi

what you all are saying is that I should probably not try to collect the set?

Jimi

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Posted By: Andy Baran

You might as well go ahead and collect the set. I guarantee that it won't cost you anything. I've been collecting the set for years, and I still have zero cards at zero cost to show for it.

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Posted By: Hal Lewis

Good point, Andy, I feel your pain.

But then again...

at least you and I are TIED for SECOND in the 1894 Alpha Photo set registry!!

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Posted By: David Seaborn

Mike,

There were a few diffrent cabinets made of the 'Old Orioles'. Here's another using the same pictures to make a different cabinet. Notice a total of 19 smaller pictures were used to create this cabinet. Hal's celebrates the 1894 team. This one is a little later as it says "Three times Worlds Champions, 1894, 95, 96".

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Posted By: Corey R. Shanus

At the risk of sounding stupid, what is an alpha engraving?

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Posted By: Andy Baran

Corey,

The Alpha Photo Engraving is a set of cards from 1894. There is only 1 known copy of each card, and several cards that are speculated to have been produced, but have not been found. Dan McKee currently owns every known card from this set. The set is very significant to many collectors, as it has the earliest known cards of McGraw, Jennings, Joe Kelly, and potentially Keeler if it is ever found. Also has other HOFers such as Robinson, Hanlon, and Brothers.

http://www.oldcardboard.com/n/alpha/alpha.asp?cardsetID=689

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Posted By: Corey R. Shanus

Thanks, Andy. They do seem very interesting.

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Posted By: Jimi

but why do I get the picture that the Alpha Brouthers in VG (as posted at Oldcardboard.com) would rake in a LOT MORE than the estimated $2,000!!

Jimi

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Posted By: Lyman

Jimi, you make a good point about the value of the Alpha cards. Please keep in mind, however, that the estimated value shown on the Old Cardboard website is for a card of a common player in VG condition--not the Brouther (HOF) card shown in the example. Also, it is anybody's guess what cards from the set would sell for since none have sold in a number of years. Few collectors would argue that Dan (the owner of the only known cards from the set) is not setting on a gold mine, given recent prices for rare type cards, and especially ones so appealing and of such historic significance. We will therefore probably be increasing our value estimate for cards from the set with the next update to our database.

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Posted By: dan mckee

Yes I own these, you can view a few originals by clicking on the "me" next to my ebay ID R337MAN.

Great cabinet Hal, where did you get it?

Forgot to mention, Hal, there are about a half dozen of the 1894 cabinets that I know of, most in local Baltimore collections. 2 different variations exist.

There was an extensive well researched article in the VCBC about the set. It is well worth reading if you can get a copy from Jays Sports. (Hal's exact cabinet is pictured in the article)

Finally, you can throw out the prices in old cardboard and Krause for these cards. I had these cataloged only after I completed the set and owned all that is known.

Leon, the Thrilla in Manilla was a good fight! I was knocked out here in the opening seconds of the first round. Happy new Year guys and Gal. Dan Mckee.

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Posted By: Jim Clarke

Let's not forget pins as well!
Dan those are great items you have. I'm sure when you sell the set, it will be time to look for a new home to live in..

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Posted By: Hal Lewis

I thank you every day in my head for selling it to me, Dan!!

Now just go out and destroy the other 5 copies that exist up there for me!!

And... sell me just ONE of the Alpha's to be reunited with the cabinet!!

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Posted By: Jim Clarke

Sorry Hal,

I've already got DIBS on this one and he's known be longer... If you want, I'll arm wrestle you for the right to buy one.. JC

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Posted By: jay behrens

I'll just attack you both and take it from you :-p

Jay

I've just reached Upper Lower Class. I am now officially a babe magnet for poor chicks.

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Posted By: Hal Lewis

I only want ONE card, JC...

you can fight with Preece and Shamus and Branca and Masson and Fogel and Sergio and Dmitri for the rest of them!!!

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Posted By: dan mckee

The VCBC article is in the July 2002 issue #31. It is very well researched and written by an intelligent person, which excludes me.

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Posted By: barrysloate

You were intelligent enough to buy them all. That counts for more than just writing an article.

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Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)

Finally.....

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Posted By: Preece1

Does anyone know where I can find an electronic version of the Alpha article?

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Posted By: barrysloate

I just reread sections of the article and it is well researched, with footnotes and pictures of all known 14 cards. I assume the final two have never been found. I don't know if it is available online. Check the VCBC site; I think there is a link on the forum.