$400,000 1952 Topps set?

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Posted By: HW

I was going through my last 3 or 4 issues of SCD and saw that a 1952 Topps set was recently sold for $400,000. I assume that this is the same set that did not sell at Sotheby's. It supposedly did not meet a hidden reserve. Also, SCP has an ad offering hundreds of graded 1952 Topps cards for sale, so I assume that the set was broken up. Lastly, I had heard of a complete PSA graded 8 1952 Topps set being offered in the $300,000 range and is supposed to be offered in an upcoming auciton if it is not sold. I wonder if all of these are the same set or just a coincidence.

Seems to me that SCD, PSA, etc are all after the hype today and are just trying to come up with stories to one up the competition. Anyone know any details?

Who's buying these six figure sets (1914 Cracker Jack, 1933 Sport King, etc?) Do you really think that they are selling or are the stories fabricated by the interested parties?

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Posted By: Marc S.

I cannot speak intelligently to the 1952 Topps set, so I will not try.

The 1914 CJ set went to an interested SGC collector - someone who has probably the best collection of vintage SGC cards, all things considered.

The 1933 Sports Kings set also did sell. The interesting snippet there is that it looks like one or two of the cards from the set may have gotten bumps up from PSA after the set sale.

Not everyone with the coin to spend necessarily wants to advertise their purchases. Nonetheless - there is some liquidity in the market, and certain sets (such as 1952 Topps) can have a strong break value if the owner has a dedicated network of buyers out there for the low population commons and star cards.

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Posted By: WP

Why would someone shell out $400,000 for a set that could have been purchased 6-8 weeks ealier for 280,000 plus vig? A hobby newbie who has been shafted?

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Posted By: jay behrens

Are you thinking about the the set taht sold in MAstro in Dec 2002, or was there another auction I missed? The set in Mastro 2002 sold for $276k plus vig

Jay

I've just reached Upper Lower Class. I am now officially a babe magnet for poor chicks.

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Posted By: HW

Came across this post on another board.

I guess that my original doubt as to the sale of the set is sor of answered.

http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=37&threadid=382667

Either that, or there are a lot of dumb collectors out there with just way too much money.

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Posted By: davidcycleback

It's a common incorrect assumption that if a collector has loads of money he or she must know what she is doing. Rich people can be just as dumb as the rest of us.

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Posted By: JimB

I know that the 52 Topps set that SCP broke up is not the same set they sold for 400k because I was talking with David Kohler about the Robinson, but did not end up getting it.
JimB

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Posted By: HW

JimB,

That does not seem to be entirely true. Judging by the certification number, the Mantle that they picture for sale in the SMR is the same one as was pictured in Sotheby's catalog. Same goes for the card of Durocher. The Feller card is is not pictured in the Sotheby's catalog..

It looks as though only part of the set was sold. Or if the whole set was sold, then cards were sold back to SCP, which does not really make sense.

One one page 146 of the SMR is an article hyping the sale of the complete set at $400,000, picturing the Mantle card. On the preceding page is SCP's ad with the exact same Mantle card for sale.

Something smells fishy.

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Posted By: JimB

My memory could be wrong, but I thought the $400,000 set was sold when he told me a bunch of 52 Topps were coming in. Anyway, if someone bought the set, but already had a Mantle and a few others and thus consigned them back to SCP, what is the big deal? I have dealt with SCP for more than 10 years and they have always been honest, profession and of the highest level of integrity and service.
JimB

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Posted By: HW

JimB,

My point is that one week they and PSA are advertising the sale of a 1952 Topps set for $400,000. The same week, SCP is is offering 250+ singles from the same set for sale. Don't you think that this is more than coincidence, especially in light that the two pictured cards in the SCP catalog and the SCP ad carry the same certification number? How do you explain that?

My original question was concerned whether or not people were actually buying these expensive sets (1933 Sport Kings, 1914 Cracker Jack, 1952 Topps, etc.). I have my doubts.

My opinion now is that maybe these are not actual sales, but somewhat contrived. As someone pointed out in another thread, maybe someown bought what they needed from the set for $100,000. SCP charged the customer a "record" $400,000 for the set (for hype's purpose) and credited him back $300,000. As long as the net amount is $100,000, who cares? As was pointed out, they could charge the customer $1,000,000 and credit him back $900,000 and the net amount would still be $100,000.

Basically, they could create any sales price they wanted to.

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Posted By: davidcycleback

It's not rare for a collector or dealer to buy a large lot from an auction house, then consign a portion of the lot to that or other auction house.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Fun to people post that 400k isn't worth it for a 1952 Topps PSA 8 complete set because it sold for 260k earlier..


the PWCC mantle will sell for more than the whole set..

[bn2cardz]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

Fun to people post that 400k isn't worth it for a 1952 Topps PSA 8 complete set because it sold for 260k earlier..


the PWCC mantle will sell for more than the whole set..

So the question is (the same question people have asked for years):
What will we look at in 10 years and think the prices are laughably low?

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by bn2cardz

So the question is (the same question people have asked for years):
What will we look at in 10 years and think the prices are laughably low?

Interesting subject...will the prices continue to rise or will it drop due to the pool of collectors dying off?

[PolarBear]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

Interesting subject...will the prices continue to rise or will it drop due to the pool of collectors dying off?

My money is on a thinning of the herd.

[ALR-bishop]

Sure is depressing to read you young guys talking about the passing of us old guys in such speculative terms . We Thinners will never know what happened.

[PolarBear]

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

Sure is depressing to read you young guys talking about the passing of us old guys in such speculative terms . We Thinners will never know what happened.

There's the problem. We middle aged guys are considered the "young" guys of the hobby.

[ullmandds]

nothing goes up forever...and we all will die sometime!!!!

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

nothing goes up forever...and we all will die sometime!!!!

Inflation does...

[pokerplyr80]

I don't even have 400k, but if I could buy a PSA 8 52 set for 400k I would find the money and buy it. As long as the Mantle was centered. I would assume I could sell the Mantle, Mathews, and Pafko alone for around 500k and still have 404 nice cards left to flip. Well 403 because I would keep the Mays.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by PolarBear

There's the problem. We middle aged guys are considered the "young" guys of the hobby.

When do we go from middle to old aged? I think I am middle (54) but feel much older sometimes.

[1952boyntoncollector]

I think middle age begins if you were to say 'back in my day' the timeframe you are referring of is in your 30s or later......

[darwinbulldog]

According to the CDC, life expectancy for the demographic that comprises most of our group (American men) is 76. Extrapolate your terminology from that as you like.