Need Some Help on some 3x5's...and a short rant

[akleinb611]

Hello everyone. You may recall that last year, I showcased my many unidentified signed 3x5's in the hope that the assembled members of Net 54 could help me out. You all came through in a very, very big way.

Now, here's the story. I recently won multiple large lots of 3x5's in a major auction, about 2,000 altogether. As you might imagine, it's taken a lot of time to begin sorting through them all.

The auction descriptions listed the lots as "mostly baseball-related." I assumed this meant that there might be some random football, basketball, ice hockey or whatever cards mixed in. As a lawyer, I did not pay enough attention to the implications of that description.

The photos of the lots couldn't show all the cards, of course, but most of the cards pictured showed that the original owner had neatly typed the player's name in the upper left corner. I was particularly happy about this, as I'm always frustrated by dealers selling 3x5's without any identification.

Well, the lots arrived. Lots and lots of cards. I noticed immediately that the listings and photos had misled me about the percentage of autographs with the names included. No more than a third of the 2,000 cards came with names included. Oh well. I dug in for the slow process of making sense of them all.

It didn't take long for me to discover that a VERY sizable chunk of the cards were truly "baseball-related." Almost half of the cards, maybe more, were signed by career minor league players. Working with google, I identified the ones with legible signatures, and the percentage of players on the unlabeled cards who never made the majors was roughly equal to those who did.

That left me with about 800 index cards I couldn't identify at all. An illegible signature by a major league player can, with some effort, be figured out, since the name is probably a familiar one. But if the scrawl isn't initially readable, what are the chance of figuring it out if it without any clue as to their identity when it belongs to someone who never got above Class A ball in the 1980's?

I realize that minor league players are worthy of respect, and there are those who collect them. But this is not a reasonable situation. Auctioning off hundreds of signed index cards of low level minor leaguers, WITHOUT SPECIFYING IN THE AUCTION LISTING THAT MANY (OR MOST) OF THE SIGNATURES BELONG TO MINOR LEAGUERS, is misleading to say the least. It would certainly have influenced my willingness to pay what I did.

Any thoughts? Is it really ok to auction off signatures without indicating that lots of them are not major leaguers?

Oh, and just to keep this in the spirit of these posts, here's one signature that's interesting at least. It looks like it was signed by an Asian player, so if anyone out there has an idea, I'd like to hear it.

I don't rant very often, but when I do, I RANT!!!

Alan Kleinberger

[philliesfan]

I believe the one on the left is Stan Bahnsen.

[gonefishin]

Hi Alan, Jim here. I sympathize with you as I have done basically the same thing but maybe not to the extent of 2,000 autographs.

A couple of things, I'm assuming that you purchased these online and not in person. If so, you didn't have a chance to look through them and get a grasp on all the autographs. Probably made your decision based upon the pictures included with the auction that you could actually see and make out (most likely a few enticing autographs). Of course, there wasn't a listing of all the autographs.

Just like I have done, the harm is self-inflicted.

I could have tried to spend hours upon hours trying to identify all the autographs - almost impossible. What I did was keep the ones that had value, or meaning, and threw the rest away. I also wrote it off as a lesson learned and moved forward.

Regardless, something you might want to consider. Good luck.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Yes, people have been running these "soft scams", if you will, in online auctions forever. Ask questions before bidding. If they don't get answered in a satisfactory way, don't get suckered by a cheap price point. There's always a reason.

The auctions aren't really scams, as they're normally accompanied by grey area verbiage that covers their interest. Are they sports autographs? Sure, but in the way that a 1986 rodeo champion is considered an athlete.

I can put together large groupings of 100% authentic, major league 3X5s from a couple of sports, but I would be charging a lot more than circa 1980 prices for them. I often see people posting "buying in bulk". Translation: "Buying for next to nothing". I get it, we all want a deal. If people are finding bulk lots at such prices, more power to them. It can certainly be done. Personally, I'm happier owning the material than in divesting for a small amount of money that won't make a difference in my life or bank account.

Just be careful in an effort to not get hosed by a bulk lot of 500 pieces, featuring one Rick Wise and 499 minor leaguers.

[akleinb611]

Thanks for the responses. I've had a little more time to calm down, and I'm no longer furious. But I am still pissed (how's that for a fine distinction?).

I do want to emphasize that about a third of the cards are of decent enough autographs, the usual suspects of players active from the Forties to the Seventies. What seems to have happened here is that these lots all came from a single collection, belonging to a fellow named Al Hein (anyone know of him)? I know this because there were a few GPC's mixed into the mass of 3x5's with his name and address on the front, and a Google search indicates that Hein died in 2020.

Apparently, Hein wrote to every person (or almost every person) playing professional baseball in the Eighties. Most, obviously, never made it to the big leagues. It's notable that the major league players I found among the unidentified index cards were mostly cup of coffee players, 1980's minor leaguers who made it up to the majors briefly in the early Nineties.

As for asking questions about the lots beforehand, it honestly never occurred to me that the signatures could be those of minor leaguers. Silly me.

I suppose I will take solace in the fact that the identified cards (the ones with the name typed on the front) include some pretty good signatures. But yes, when you bid on an auction of this size, you're looking for a bargain. I'll pay full retail for a signed Topps card or any one of a number of collectibles, but 3x5's are precisely the sort of collectible I would rather get at the bargain level.

And for those who are curious, the auction in question was the recent one conducted by Wheatland. I expected better of them.

Alan Kleinberger

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Once I saw "Al Hein", I knew it was Wheatland. I have been at this a long time and had never heard of him until they started selling his stuff. For the most part, what a complete snooze fest of garbage! Most of that material didn't sell for much, yet deserved to go for lower than it did!

I could tell that there were some minor leaguers in there, but they didn't show all the cards in the larger lots.