1985 Topps Mini & 1991 Desert Shield

[bswhiten]

I made a deal and am getting a complete mint set of 85 Topps Minis (regular back) and 91 Topps Desert Shield. Below are the cards i am asking to be shipped with sleeves and toploader from the seller. If you guys know of any others that I should ask for extra protection please let know. Thanks.

Ben

85 Topps Mini -
230 Carter, 340 Yount, 352 Morgan, 355 Blyleven, 360 Carlton, 500 Schmidt, 610 Morris, 700 Murray, 760 Ryan

91 Desert Shield -
1 Ryan, 2 Brett, 5 Ripken, 7 Sandberg, 35 Maddux, 73 Morris, 79 Thomas, 82 Glavine, 100 Mattingly, 130 Smith, 150 Ripken, 180 Gwynn, 200 Strawberry, 225 Johnson, 270 McGwire, 275 Trammell, 300 Puckett, 310 Carter, 330 Gooden, 333 Jones in bulletproof loader , 389 Trammell, 391 Henderson, 392 Griffey, 393 Fisk, 397 Murray, 398 Sandberg, 401 Bonds, 402 Strawberry, 450 Boggs, 500 Clark, 520 Grace, 530 Clemens, 540 Brett, 545 Murphy, 550 Davis, 565 Biggio,570 Bonds, 575 Yount, 590 Murray, 600 Jackson, 615 Blyleven, 630 Winfield, 640 Dawson, 670 Henderson, 700 Canseco, 740 Sandberg, 790 Griffey

[ALR-bishop]

Ironically, one of the toughest of the 85 Minis to find in high grade is the Rick Manning. A great many of the minis have very light wrinkles that are impossible to see in scans and even in hand are tough to spot. Unless you are going for a highly graded set the wrinkle cards still present well.

On the 91s the biggest issue is the large number of fakes out there

[bswhiten]

Thanks Al.
Yea the seller has the original sale sheet from when he bought the set in Sept. 1990. It shows three cards with surface defects/creases and one of them is #603 Rick Manning.

[Blackless Collector]

Originally Posted by bswhiten

I made a deal and am getting a complete mint set of 85 Topps Minis (regular back) and 91 Topps Desert Shield. Below are the cards i am asking to be shipped with sleeves and toploader from the seller. If you guys know of any others that I should ask for extra protection please let know. Thanks.

Ben

85 Topps Mini -
230 Carter, 340 Yount, 352 Morgan, 355 Blyleven, 360 Carlton, 500 Schmidt, 610 Morris, 700 Murray, 760 Ryan

91 Desert Shield -
1 Ryan, 2 Brett, 5 Ripken, 7 Sandberg, 35 Maddux, 73 Morris, 79 Thomas, 82 Glavine, 100 Mattingly, 130 Smith, 150 Ripken, 180 Gwynn, 200 Strawberry, 225 Johnson, 270 McGwire, 275 Trammell, 300 Puckett, 310 Carter, 330 Gooden, 333 Jones in bulletproof loader , 389 Trammell, 391 Henderson, 392 Griffey, 393 Fisk, 397 Murray, 398 Sandberg, 401 Bonds, 402 Strawberry, 450 Boggs, 500 Clark, 520 Grace, 530 Clemens, 540 Brett, 545 Murphy, 550 Davis, 565 Biggio,570 Bonds, 575 Yount, 590 Murray, 600 Jackson, 615 Blyleven, 630 Winfield, 640 Dawson, 670 Henderson, 700 Canseco, 740 Sandberg, 790 Griffey

DS
#166 Harold Baines
#607 Edgar Martinez
#339 Larry Walker

[ALR-bishop]

[bswhiten]

Thanks Christian! I will add those to the Desert Shield list...

Al, yours is beautiful! That card must be tough in good shape. I saw a nice example of one sold for $500 almost four years ago. Wow.

[bswhiten]

Mail-day

Pretty cool to get an original sale letter too. Anyone ever heard of The Wizards of Odd? Cool name.

Thanks to net54 Zach for checking out the DS set prior to purchase.

[ALR-bishop]

Great stuff Ben

[roarfrom34]

I remember the "Wizard of Odd" guys very well....They set up at all the Fort Washington (PA) shows and their booth would be the first one I'd hit....

[bswhiten]

Thanks for the info Bill. The seller said they were really good guys and had great oddball stuff.

Thanks Al.
Do any of your regular backs have odd print defects?
I guess I will have to look for another example of 545 Moseby. My Foster has a white "cloud" on back too.

[Blackless Collector]

Originally Posted by bswhiten

Mail-day

Pretty cool to get an original sale letter too. Anyone ever heard of The Wizards of Odd? Cool name.

Thanks to net54 Zach for checking out the DS set prior to purchase.

Super Nice Collection!! i love The 1985 Topps Mini set and the Amazing history Behind the Cards, only 100 of each cards with regular backs(stats), and produced by O-Pee-chee with topps logo. im in Process to Build Mini Hofers. im in Process too build Hofers set of desert Shield, very Nice cards and the Best set of the 90's.
Enjoy This Greatest cards!!!

[bswhiten]

Thanks Christian!

Looks like all of the Foster’s and Moseby’s I have seen have a print defect in the same location on the back.

[hockeyhockey]

nevermind, posted elsewhere

[bswhiten]

Graded a few

Was not expecting a highest graded, population 2 mini Ryan.

[slidekellyslide]

Nice...congrats! What's the deal with these 85 minis? How were they distributed and where? Was there a Pete O'Brien in the set?

[ALR-bishop]

Never distributed Dan. Unissued test set. Only 132 cards involved. I finished the set in blank backs and regular backs, and have about 1/2 the set in red back only. They can also be found with smeared backs. The blank backs can be white or tan and are much scarcer than the regular backs, which are also scarce. SCD and Lemke once estimated less than 100 of each of each card exists, with about 30 % or less blank backed. Not sure if those numbers re right but they are a tough issue. Likely someone got ahold of the unissued cards or uncut sheets. I have a couple of uncut panels. PSA grades them as regular or blank backed. Because many were cut from sheets they often have very tiny wrinkles that are not obvious in most scans.

Will double check but pretty sure no O'Brien

Bob F (Bobsbbcards) has his set on the Regisrty

[slidekellyslide]

Thanks Al, I had no idea there was even plans for a mini set in 85. Would have been cool if they’d distributed the set.

[bswhiten]

http://www.milehighcardco.com/LotDet...entoryid=95497

A nice looking 85 mini set just sold on Mile High…

[Zach Wheat]

Resurrecting the old 85 Topps mini thread as I am adding additional info.

This set has been listed as one of the top 10 rarest Topps sets. Alan Hager, who was influential in the creation of the grading scale pre-PSA (ala AccuGrade and ASA) was the one of the dealers that bought 60 of the 110 sheets that were "discovered" by OPC's garbage scrappers. The sheets were in varying stages of printing, including smeared ink, wrinkles on the sheets, partially printed backs and they were printed on different stocks of cardboard. All of the cards are thought to be hand cut and said to originate from the original find of 110 sheets.

I suspect Alan bought the white/tan and normal stat back sheets as he did not have any of the red stat back sheets when I talked to him at varying dates from his acquisition. Perhaps another dealer bought the red stat back sheets prior to Alan purchasing his stock. He mentions that the rarest back came from his sheets - and he purchased 10 sheets of white back cards and 5 sheets of tan back cards with the remainder being normal stat backs.

Ben good acquisition - the Ryan is a nice looking card and one of the most expensive cards in the set.

[bswhiten]

There is a great article that Kevin Glew wrote on the set that was recently published by Beckett Vintage Collector. Multiple folks that are members of Net54 were interviewed - Al, Bob, Christian, and myself

[Brent G.]

I've been looking for this card over the past year after learning about this set on Net54 and just found it. There's a seller on eBay (chippercards_on_ig) who's breaking a set, so if you're looking for specific players, he might have it. His prices are perhaps a tad elevated, but we reached a good deal off-site via Instagram.

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by Brent G.

His prices are perhaps a tad elevated

That's an understatement.

He is legendary in the rare 90s community for buying up rare cards and holding them hostage at absurd buy it now prices.

I'm glad you were able to make a deal. I've made a deal or two with him, but still ended up overpaying.

The worst is when I lose an auction to him knowing I am the strongest buyer on the market for a rare card, only to see it pop up for double what the auction went for on his store. I get it that he's playing the long game and banking on appreciation over time, but it sucks that collectors lose out to flippers like him from a fair market price for a card at the time.

[Rich Klein]

Were Gary Sawatzki and Jim Justus and they traveled to all the big shows with a boatload of oddball cards.

Really nice people and I bought a lot of cards from them over the years as did Dr. Jim for his type card assortment needed to picture for the Books/Almanacs we did at Beckett.

Both of them are no longer with us from what I've heard

Regards
Rich

[Brent G.]

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

That's an understatement.

He is legendary in the rare 90s community for buying up rare cards and holding them hostage at absurd buy it now prices.

I'm glad you were able to make a deal. I've made a deal or two with him, but still ended up overpaying.

The worst is when I lose an auction to him knowing I am the strongest buyer on the market for a rare card, only to see it pop up for double what the auction went for on his store. I get it that he's playing the long game and banking on appreciation over time, but it sucks that collectors lose out to flippers like him from a fair market price for a card at the time.

Yeah the BIN on the Concepcion wasn't realistic. I ended up paying around $170 less than what would've been the all-in eBay price. But yes, still overpaid a bit.

[Zach Wheat]

It's been a fun set to collect. I fear I will never get all the back combinations. One of the dealers that purchased the sheets indicated the sheets had smearing on many of the sheets in the same spot - which is in part why they were thrown away - indicating an uneven population of certain cards. I always wondered if the Ryan card was one of those? Or is his card scarce due to perceived rarity? Or star status?

[Brent G.]

Originally Posted by Zach Wheat

It's been a fun set to collect. I fear I will never get all the back combinations. One of the dealers that purchased the sheets indicated the sheets had smearing on many of the sheets in the same spot - which is in part why they were thrown away - indicating an uneven population of certain cards. I always wondered if the Ryan card was one of those? Or is his card scarce due to perceived rarity? Or star status?

It sure is a fascinating set and slice of history. How far into completion are you, Zach?

[Rich Klein]

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

That's an understatement.

He is legendary in the rare 90s community for buying up rare cards and holding them hostage at absurd buy it now prices.

I'm glad you were able to make a deal. I've made a deal or two with him, but still ended up overpaying.

The worst is when I lose an auction to him knowing I am the strongest buyer on the market for a rare card, only to see it pop up for double what the auction went for on his store. I get it that he's playing the long game and banking on appreciation over time, but it sucks that collectors lose out to flippers like him from a fair market price for a card at the time.

Then you are not the strongest buyer is someone is outbidding you. You might be the strongest "collector" buyer and usually a collector can outbid a dealer BUT as noted, if the dealer realizes scarcity is paramount, they might not care and go for the gusto in bidding for an item

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by Rich Klein

Then you are not the strongest buyer is someone is outbidding you. You might be the strongest "collector" buyer and usually a collector can outbid a dealer BUT as noted, if the dealer realizes scarcity is paramount, they might not care and go for the gusto in bidding for an item

I think that was inherent in my statement. When I said I was the strongest buyer, I was referring to being the one out there who will pay him more for the card than anyone else. Not that I outbid him in the auction.

It's ok though. I take solace when I see him drop thousands on a card that is worth a fraction of what he paid, then see him sit on it at a massive price, only to take a bath on it when he needs to sell it.

So maybe the better term is that I was the strongest "rational buyer."

[Brent G.]

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

I think that was inherent in my statement. When I said I was the strongest buyer, I was referring to being the one out there who will pay him more for the card than anyone else. Not that I outbid him in the auction.

It's ok though. I take solace when I see him drop thousands on a card that is worth a fraction of what he paid, then see him sit on it at a massive price, only to take a bath on it when he needs to sell it.

So maybe the better term is that I was the strongest "rational buyer."

Are you making a run at completing this set, Tim?

[OhioLawyerF5]

No. Chippercards specializes in 90s cards and I PC rare Barry Larkin cards from the 90s. So we run into each other quite a bit.

[Zach Wheat]

Originally Posted by Brent G.

It sure is a fascinating set and slice of history. How far into completion are you, Zach?

I have about 140 '85 mini's with most cards being blank backs (white or tan) of some sort. I suspect the reason for such an odd distribution is that PSA doesn't grade blank backs and collectors are mainly buying graded, complete back cards. However, those cards are the least rare.