1st Graded Card of Negro League HOFer

Archive · #1 04-21-2002, 03:38 PM

Posted By: Ryan Christoff

As far as I know, this is the first card of a Negro League HOFer ever to be graded. It's a 1923/24 Billiken (Cuban) card of John Henry "Pop" Lloyd.

When Babe Ruth was asked who the greatest player in the history of baseball was he said it was Pop Lloyd. The greatest shortstop in Negro League history, Lloyd regularly drew comparisons to Honus Wagner, a compliment Wagner felt honored to receive. Connie Mack once said "You could put Wagner and Lloyd in a bag together, and whichever one you pulled out you couldn't go wrong."

I just thought some of you might like to see the card.

-Ryan Christoff

Archive · #2 04-21-2002, 08:10 PM

Posted By: W.M.

Nice card.

Archive · #3 04-21-2002, 09:10 PM

Posted By: W.M.

He broke in in 1905 as a catcher for the Macon Georgia Acmes and played without a mask. After getting hit in the face with foul balls he created his own catchers mask out of a wire waste basket. Sol White taught him how to play shortstop and Lloyd would become so good he was called the "black Honus Wagner".

In 1910 the Detoit Tigers played Lloyd's Havana Reds Cobb in a three game series hit .369, Reds players Grant Johnson, Bruce Petway and Lloyd all batted .500 and Cobb was thrown out three times trying to steal second. Cobb was reported to have said after the series he would never again play baseball on the same field as black players.

Graham McNamee who if i'm not mistaken is in the sportswriters hall of fame is credited with getting the quote from Ruth about Lloyd being the best player he ever saw. Many doubt the authenticity of the quote as Ruth has also been quoted as saying other Players such as Shoeless Joe Jackson and Ty Cobb were the best he ever saw.

Anyway I sure like that card of Lloyd.

Archive · #4 04-22-2002, 04:11 AM

Posted By: Ryan Christoff

Actually, for the sake of accuracy, the averages for the 1910 Cuban series were:

1. John Henry "Pop" Lloyd - .500
2. Grant "Home Run" Johnson - .412
3. Bruce Petway - .389
4. Ty Cobb - .368

The Tigers played 12 games total versus the two Cuban teams (Almedares & Habana). Cobb didn't arrive in Cuba until the first 7 games had already been played.

Several interesting myths stem from this series. According to one, Cobb filed his spikes on the dugout steps before each game and told Lloyd, the opposing shortstop, "this is for you." Lloyd, however, wore cast-iron shin guards under his socks and foiled Cobb's nefarious plan.

In another story Cobb was thrown out 3 times in a row by Negro Leaguer Bruce Petway. Another story is exactly the same except the catcher is Valentin "Strike" Gonzalez, a Cuban. According to newspaper accounts, however, Cobb only tried to steal once in the 5 games (he was thrown out by Petway).

In Cobb's 1st at bat of the series he hit a home run. It was an opposite field line drive that bounced over the left fielder's head. Cobb slid safely into home head first.

In his last at bat of the series he struck out against the greatest Cuban pitcher of all time, Jose Mendez.

Shortly after the Tigers left, the Philadelphia Athletics arrived (minus Eddie Collins, Rube Oldring and Frank Baker).

Baseball cards were made of both teams, as well many Cubans, by a tobacco company in Cuba called "Punch". They are the rarest of all Cuban issues. Cobb, Crawford, Plank, and Bender all have 1910 Punch Cigarros cards (cigarros is Spanish for "cigarette" by the way).

Sorry to ramble on for so long,

-Ryan

Archive · #5 04-22-2002, 06:56 AM

Posted By: HalleyGator

I collect graded Hall of Fame cards, and I have always been told by the grading companies that they don't grade these Cuban cards.

I am VERY glad to see that one of them is starting to do so, and hopefully PSA will follow so that I can add these fabulous players to my collection.

Archive · #6 04-23-2002, 02:33 AM

Posted By: Ryan Christoff

Hal,

I think it is only a matter of time before PSA starts grading Cuban cards. I would think they would start with the Caramelo Deportivo "Felices" issues of the 1940's. They are somewhat common (as far as Cuban cards go) and also important as they contain cards of HOFers Martin Dihigo and Ray Dandridge. The cards are paper thin and almost always have glue staining on the back from being pasted in the album that they were meant to be pasted into. If PSA can grade Cracker Jacks, they should have no problem with Caramelo Deportivo "Felices". As far as the stuff from the 20's and earlier (the really good stuff), that's another story.

-Ryan

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