A question of credibility (Bushing's Degree)

Archive · #1 03-02-2005, 10:59 AM

Posted By: vikes066

[deleted]

Archive · #2 03-02-2005, 11:23 AM

Posted By: Hal Lewis

My thoughts:

1) He must not have a Master's Degree.

or

2) His Master's Degree was in some are that is so IRRELEVANT to card grading that Mastro figured to eliminate it as "useless puffery."

3) If he does NOT have a Master's Degree in ANY area and was just "lying" about it... then this does tend to lend a spectre of doubt to a man whose entire livelihood depends on his credibility.

Hopefully we can get an answer soon.

Archive · #3 03-02-2005, 11:35 AM

Posted By: Or Maybe

Just a thought.

Archive · #4 03-02-2005, 11:37 AM

Posted By: vikes066

[response deleted]

Archive · #5 03-02-2005, 12:24 PM

Posted By: Todd Schultz

If I were his or his employer's attorney, I would recommend that it be deleted from any published bio, even if true, unless the Masters degree is in something that pretty cleanly ties into authentication (is there such a degree available?). Otherwise, it creates at least an impression in the minds of the uninformed that a pertinent degree exists which by itself helps to somehow elevate Mr. Bushing's standing. I would not want to give a prospective disgruntled customer ammunition to say that he relied upon the degree in the bio as carrying some significance, and be left to fight over whether that reliance was reasonable, unless the degree was in fact germane to the service Bushing was being asked to perform.

In short, it's likely that little would be gained by including it, and potentially more could be lost, so out it goes.

Archive · #6 03-02-2005, 12:52 PM

Posted By: PASJD

Did any of you ever rely on Bushing's claim that he had an unspecified Master's degree? Obviously not. So WHO CARES?? There is plenty of material out there for conspiracy theorists and get-a-lifers (and I include myself in those categories at least sometimes), but come on.

Archive · #7 03-02-2005, 01:03 PM

Posted By: vikes066

[response deleted]

Archive · #8 03-02-2005, 01:08 PM

Posted By: PASJD

Joe P.'s post was a JOKE -- "BS" -- get it? Well enjoy the witchhunt.

Archive · #9 03-02-2005, 01:09 PM

Posted By: al davis

his position as a so-called expert is based on his credibility and honesty. he has clearly attempted to mislead the public by obviously implying that his degree lends relevance to his ability to authenticate. as far as i'm concerned, there can be no doubt that this type of behavior is part of his character and extends into all of his dealings. to think otherwise would be naive.

Archive · #10 03-02-2005, 01:13 PM

Posted By: vikes066

[response deleted]

Archive · #11 03-02-2005, 01:14 PM

Posted By: PASJD

WOW we have now psychoanalyzed Dave Bushing, and concluded that dishonesty infects all his business dealings, based on a poster's representation that Mastro's website description of him was changed (and without any knowledge whatsoever about whether Mr. Bushing was involved in the original description or the change, or, in fact, whether Mr. Bushing does indeed have a Master's Degree). Nice.

Archive · #12 03-02-2005, 01:18 PM

Posted By: Todd Schultz

leaving it in there serves no useful puropse that I can see, and can simply lead to all this utter speculation, and potentially claims of reliance? Did he or didn't he; what kind of degree, what level of degree, etc.

Hey what's done is done, and if he intended to mislead with that in his bio or it had the effect regardless, then perhaps some consequences will flow from that. But I see no harm in removing it now, nor do I see the removal as some sort of "ethical violation" by itself.

Archive · #13 03-02-2005, 01:25 PM

Posted By: vikes066

[response deleted]

Archive · #14 03-02-2005, 01:25 PM

Posted By: Gilbert Maines

Where did this go:?

Sportico will have all bats, gloves, and equipment authenticated by Dave Bushing of Global Authentication free of charge to our consignors.

Archive · #15 03-02-2005, 01:26 PM

Posted By: davidcycleback

How about this. If and when you find out he doesn't have a masters degree you come back and report that he doesn't have a masters. Until that time, I don't understand the point of having a thread based on the premise "I don't know and haven't looked into it, but it might be possible that some guy doesn't have a masters."

Archive · #16 03-02-2005, 01:29 PM

Posted By: Wesley

Have you considered David's method? Perhaps you should confirm this before bashing a the guy on a public fourm.

Archive · #17 03-02-2005, 01:34 PM

Posted By: vikes066

[response deleted]

Archive · #18 03-02-2005, 01:41 PM

Posted By: vikes066

[response deleted]

Archive · #19 03-02-2005, 01:49 PM

Posted By: Wesley

You are questioning a man's credibility and integrity. Even posed as a hypothetical, that can be damaging to his reputation. Do what you want. I would have tried to call SCDA or Bushing before posting.

Archive · #20 03-02-2005, 01:53 PM

Posted By: Gilbert Maines

Questioning a man's credibility, who trades primarilly on his credibility, appears to me to be a legitimate inquiry.

Archive · #21 03-02-2005, 01:55 PM

Posted By: leon

BTW, my degree is in General Studies....so that makes me an expert in nothing and I can prove it .......later

edited as we have the answer on the Masters....but I still can prove I am an expert at nothing....

Archive · #22 03-02-2005, 02:08 PM

Posted By: PASJD

The comparison in the first post in the thread, it appears to me, is between two different websites, not a "before and after" from the same website.

Archive · #23 03-02-2005, 02:24 PM

Posted By: davidcycleback

I wrote articles for two different publications where the editor added a brief bio of the the author (me). For one, the editor asked me to write a short bio. For the other, the editor wrote the bio on his initiative and I didn't know there was a bio until I saw it published.

So I can tell you first hand that a person can have little to no input into what is used or omitted in his bio, may not even be aware that a bio is being written and may not even like the bio that was written.

Archive · #24 03-02-2005, 02:26 PM

Posted By: Howie

When Did You Stop Beating Your Wife?

Archive · #25 03-02-2005, 02:28 PM

Posted By: Wesley

Indeed. I have given seminars where I have specifically emailed my curriculum vitae. When introduced, the hosts inadvertently changed or added things not in my CV.

Archive · #26 03-02-2005, 02:33 PM

Posted By: Aaron

"WOW we have now psychoanalyzed Dave Bushing, and concluded that dishonesty infects all his business dealings, based on a poster's representation that Mastro's website description of him was changed (and without any knowledge whatsoever about whether Mr. Bushing was involved in the original description or the change, or, in fact, whether Mr. Bushing does indeed have a Master's Degree). Nice."

Seriously, you know SCDA reads this board (hi, Troy). You know Mastro reads this board (hi, Brian). Yesterday Vikes starts a thread questioning whether Bushing actually has a Master's Degree as stated on his bio on Mastro's website. Today that Master's degree has been deleted from his bio.

You don't think there's anything to this? And if Vikes is on to something, you don't think that's further damaging to Bushing's credibility?

Maybe Dave's good friends Lee and Jay can find out if Dave really has a Master's degree. My curiosity has been piqued.

Archive · #27 03-02-2005, 02:46 PM

Posted By: PASJD

I am bothered if significant alterations are made to cards but not disclosed. I expressed those concerns with regard to the Keeler card a while back. But even assuming Mastro changed the description of Mr. Bushing's biography, and I see no evidence of that given that the comparison posted here was between TWO DIFFERENT WEBSITES, I would not read anything sinister into it without a lot more facts (maybe they made a mistake, for example). And I CERTAINLY would not (as at least one poster did) start casting aspersions on Mr. Bushing's credibility based on an apparent disparity between two versions of his biography on a matter I consider to be of no relevance to his qualifications. I am not defending Mr. Bushing, I have no basis on which to do so, and indeed I have some remaining questions about the DiMaggio bat episode, but this thing about the Master's degree seems to me to be a tempest in a teapot.

Archive · #28 03-02-2005, 02:49 PM

Posted By: Aaron

"But even assuming Mastro changed the description of Mr. Bushing's biography, and I see no evidence of that given that the comparison posted here was between TWO DIFFERENT WEBSITES, I would not read anything sinister into it without a lot more facts (maybe they made a mistake, for example)."

Yeah, but that doesn't matter. One site says he does. One site doesn't (and was perhaps changed only recently). So, the question is, does he have a Master's degree? And if not, why is an auction house stating that he does?

Your points are well-taken (I think this is more comical than sinister), but it does add legitimate fuel to the debate.

Archive · #29 03-02-2005, 02:50 PM

Posted By: JT

Actually, if you do a Google search, you can find that Bushing's profile was in fact changed on this "roster" page. Compare the current page with Google's "cached" page.

Current:

http://www.mastronet.com/index.cfm?action=DisplayContent&ContentName=Our%20Roster

Cached:

bio

The other roster profiles mention these degrees:
*He holds a Bachelor's degree from Waynesburg College
*Mark holds a Bachelors degree in Finance from DePaul University
*Kevin has been active in the hobby since 1980 while obtaining a dual degree in Economics and Religious Studies at University of California, Santa Barbara
*Six-year U.S. Navy veteran (aircraft carrier service); holds Master's degree in HRM.
*Khyber holds degrees in English and French with minors in philosophy and international studies

I don't think you can use the argument that Bushing's was removed because of lack of relevance.

Disclaimer: I've never bought anything from Bushing, but I've always considered him a competent professional. The fact that no one has offered a reasonable explanation does, in my mind, threaten his credibility.

[edited to fix horrendously long link]

Archive · #30 03-02-2005, 02:58 PM

Posted By: mcavoy

From a similar google search. See: The HSC Top 100. Mr. Bushing is in a tie for #65:

http://www.hscpub.com/EnterTitleContinuationofHSC100.htm

"65T. Dave Bushing, Bat, Glove & Equipment Authenticator, MastroNet, Inc. 3

Billed by MastroNet as the number one authority and authenticator of bats and gloves. Dave has a Masters degree and has published several books on equipment, including Vintage Sports Equipment with Krause Publications, MastroNet Reference and Price Guide for Collecting Game Used Bats and pocket identification and value guides to gloves and bats. According to MastroNet, Dave selected as the repository of the Louisville Slugger archives and has all records for every bat ever made for any player of note, with this information not otherwise available. Dave is regularly requested for his expertise by collectors, dealers, institutions and other auctions to validate their items."

Archive · #31 03-02-2005, 03:01 PM

Posted By: MW

Can anyone from Mastronet comment?

Archive · #32 03-02-2005, 03:12 PM

Posted By: al davis

"a matter I consider to be of no relevance to his qualifications". it may not be relevant to his ability to authenticate, but it sure is central to his credibility.

Archive · #33 03-02-2005, 03:22 PM

Posted By: PASJD

"...he has clearly attempted to mislead the public by obviously implying that his degree lends relevance to his ability to authenticate. as far as i'm concerned, there can be no doubt that this type of behavior is part of his character and extends into all of his dealings. to think otherwise would be naive."

I suggest that before you attack a person in this fashion, suggesting not only that he attempted to mislead the public but that "all his dealings" are tainted, you make sure you have the facts. This is one of the most irresponsible statements I have ever read.

Archive · #34 03-02-2005, 03:28 PM

Posted By: davidcycleback

...

Archive · #35 03-02-2005, 03:34 PM

Posted By: MW

David,

I agree with your deleted remarks. Let's give David Bushing the benefit of the doubt until we learn more.

Archive · #36 03-02-2005, 03:38 PM

Posted By: davidcycleback

Michael, the original post had four periods, but I felt that might come across as garish and edited it down to three.

Archive · #37 03-02-2005, 03:44 PM

Posted By: al davis

sure, let's give him the benefit of the doubt. we should also assume that he has no conflict of interest. while we're at it, let's forget the trivial mistakes he's recently made authenticating big-ticket items. after all, he seems to be a nice guy and what's more, we'll feel good about ourselves.

Archive · #38 03-02-2005, 03:59 PM

Posted By: MW

Aldavis,

There is no question in my mind that David Bushing has a conflict of interest. That issue is separate from this one. If you can prove that David Bushing does not, in fact, have a Master's degree and that the language was added to the Mastro website by his own request or notation, then you have a legitimate complaint about his integrity. Absent that, you have mere speculation.

Archive · #39 03-02-2005, 04:30 PM

Posted By: Cap

I'm seeing a lot of this lately, especially with Jimmy Spence, PSA/DNA and now Bushing.

Take the leaders in their field (we can agree to disagree here) and knock them off their peg. By knocking them off their peg, there will simply be a new leader and then we can try and knock them off their peg. It's a circle. We don't know if Bushing did anything wrong. What if he's too ashamed to display his Master's in 'Macramae'?

More important, did anyone see the link to the HSC100 list from 2002? What in the hell is that?

Jimmy Spence and Larry Fritch are tied with a bunch of others at #95, Coach's Corner is at #81, Mickey Mantle and Dave Bushing are tied at #65 and Peyton Manning is at #31.

Cheers from the snow filled East!

Cap

Yes, I received your letter yesterday. (About the time the door knob broke). When you asked how I was doing. Was that some kind of joke?- Bob Dylan

Archive · #40 03-02-2005, 04:40 PM

Posted By: PASJD

Ironically, the next line of the song Cap's quote is from is "All these people that you mention, yes I know them they're quite lame."

Archive · #41 03-02-2005, 04:45 PM

Posted By: vikes066

[response deleted]

Archive · #42 03-02-2005, 05:44 PM

Posted By: Dan Bretta

Vikes, why don't you email him and ask him for yourself?

Archive · #43 03-02-2005, 06:09 PM

Posted By: PASJD

Dan, be serious, why would Vikes believe anything Mr. Bushing himself said, because he might lie. His credibility is "clearly" suspect based on the overwhelming "facts" that already have been unearthed, so asking Bushing himself is obviously a waste of time. PS -- I hope Doug Allen will clear this all up so we can move on to the next (and hopefully more substantial) controversy.

Archive · #44 03-02-2005, 06:24 PM

Posted By: davidcycleback

My question after reading the "evidence" used in this thread ("I don't know, but it's possible, so let's assume the worst so we can make our conclusion"), is this the same level of facts people used to say the DiMaggio bat was bad?

Archive · #45 03-02-2005, 06:36 PM

Posted By: PASJD

At this point, anyhow, in the opinion of this lawyer it amounts to nothing more than sheer speculation on a matter of marginal (at best) importance. Look at the other Mastro bios. The degrees mentioned in them are just deep background facts to humanize the people in my opinion, they aren't being offered to prop up anyone's credentials. What is being offered to prop up credentials is hobby or other relevant experience.

Archive · #46 03-02-2005, 06:40 PM

Posted By: vikes066

[response deleted]

Archive · #47 03-02-2005, 06:48 PM

Posted By: Hal Lewis

I would bet my left one that Mastro and/or Bushing are aware of this thread by now...

so the longer it goes without a response from them, the more it seems that vikes may have found something.

Archive · #48 03-02-2005, 06:49 PM

Posted By: vikes066

[response deleted]

Archive · #49 03-02-2005, 06:56 PM

Posted By: Cap

I see Vikes' point.

The problem is that questions pop up and nobody answers them.

Who is authenticating at PSA/DNA?
Does Bushing have a degree (and why was the mention removed)?

Why can't these questions simply be answered by those parties? When you act in silence, guilt is thrusted upon you. If Dave continues to avoid the question, he is guilty in the eyes of his peers and those who trusted his opinion. If admits that he never had Master's...well, aren't we looking at Jason Giambi and the steroid mess here? All his work from before will come into doubt.

Cap

PASJD, Julie beat you to the punch and finished up my lyrics on a thread I started. Dylan's songs have 'messages for this forum'.

I can see that your head has been twisted and fed by worthless foam from the mouth-Bob Dylan

Archive · #50 03-02-2005, 07:02 PM

Posted By: Dan Bretta

Vikes, why don't you email Bushing and ask him for yourself?

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