Your all time Top 10 Hitters !!

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Posted By: Charlie O'Neal

What's yours??

1. Ty Cobb
2. Babe Ruth
3. Hank Aaron
4. Ted Williams
5. Rogers Hornsby
6. Honus Wagner
7. Barry Bonds
8. Tris Speaker
9. Lou Gehrig
10. George Sisler

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Posted By: Andrew Parks

1. Williams
2. Ruth
3. Cobb
4. Aaron
5. Musial
6. Mays
7. Wagner
8. Bonds
9. Speaker
10. Mantle

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Posted By: Glenn

1. Ted Williams
2. Ty Cobb
3. Babe Ruth
4. Josh Gibson
5. Lou Gehrig
6. Barry Bonds
7. Stan Musial
8. Rogers Hornsby
9. Hank Aaron
10. Willie Mays

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Posted By: Ray

1. Babe Ruth
2. Ty Cobb
3. Ted Williams
4. Lou Gehrig
5. George Sisler
6. Rogers Hornsby
7. Mickey Mantle
8. Pete Rose
9. Joe DiMaggio
10. Willie Mays

Honorable Mention: Ichiro Suzuki
Why is everyone omitting the All-Time Hit King???

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Posted By: jay behrens

1. Williams
2. Ruth
3. Hornsby
4. Gibson
5. Bonds
6. Foxx
7. Brouthers
8. Cobb
9. Mays
10. Gehrig

Puljos will most likely bump someone from this list by the time he retires.

Jay

I've just reached Upper Lower Class. I am now officially a babe magnet for poor chicks.

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Posted By: Jon Canfield

My top 10 "natural" hitters (ie: no suspicion of being jucied)

1. Ty Cobb
2. Babe Ruth
3. Ted Williams
4. Hank Aaron
5. Rogers Hornsby
6. Honus Wagner
7. Mickey Mantle
8. Tris Speaker
9. Lou Gehrig
10. Joe DiMaggio

Runner Up: Sisler, Gibson, Mays, Rose

Edited to add comment:

Jay, be offended if you must but my comment stays unless edited by Leon. Each of us is entilted to his own opinion and I can respect yours. However, if you read my comment above, I have simply chosen not to include players who have been under SUSPICION of being juiced as it would give a clear advantage in terms of power. This goes for any player; not just Bonds. Bottom line is, I do not feel my comment is out of line or unnecessary. Other's have chosen to qualify their comments by decades, power, OBP, etc. I have chosen to qualify my answers as well.

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Posted By: Jim

1) Williams
2) Ruth
3) Jackson
4) Hornsby
5) Cobb
6) Speaker
7) Gehrig
8) Musial
9) Gwynn
10)Lajoie

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Posted By: jay behrens

Jon, did you really have to go down that road? I'll delete this post if you delete your unecessary comment. This doesn't need to degenerate into another thread about who is juiced or cheated. I guess "greenies" that players since the 50s doesn't count as cheating in your book.

Jay

I've just reached Upper Lower Class. I am now officially a babe magnet for poor chicks.

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Posted By: anonymousdave

Ruth
Bonds
Cobb
Mantle
Williams
Aaron
Gehrig
Gwynn
Foxx
DiMaggio

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Posted By: Shannon

In no certain order
Cobb
Ruth
Lajoie
Williams
Sisler
Hornsby
Wagner
Speaker
Gehrig
Foxx

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Posted By: J Levine

This is my pure hitter that includes my opinion only...

No real order...

Williams
Ruth
Aaron
Bonds
Rose
Murray
Lajoie
Cobb
Hornsby
Gibson

Joshua

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Posted By: Anson

Pure hitters, power not included


Cobb
Ruth
Gwynn
Williams
Heilmann
Hornsby
Wagner
Speaker
Gehrig
Foxx

R/O Lajoie, E Collins, Musial, Gehringer, Shoeless Joe

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Posted By: fkw

Ave & Power & RBI

1)Ruth
2)Bonds
3)Williams
4)Cobb
5)DiMaggio
6)JJackson
7)Gehrig
8)Mays
9)Wagner
10)Gwynn

best of the rest........
Musial, Carew, Speaker,
Hornsby, Sisler, Aaron, Mantle,
Foxx, McGwire, MRamirez, ARod

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Posted By: Andrew Parks

For the sake of discussion ONLY and not to imply to anyone that they are wrong...

Some observations:

1) To me the best hitters are the ones who walk, hit and hit for power.

2) Sisler was way overrated in my opinion. He hit for a high average but never walked and had limited power.

3) Ruth, Gehrig, Foxx, and Hornsby all look like top ten hitters when you look at the stats, but how can four (five counting Sisler) from the same era make it on the list? It reeks of inflated stats and sure enough, when you dig deeper, you will find the time between 1920 - 1939 had some of history's greatest offensive seasons (Ruth, Hornsby, Greenberg, Gehrig, Wilson, Foxx, etc etc). Lots of runs scored in that era. So I am always suspicious of those stats. So I take the best of the era - Ruth.

4)Cobb, Wagner and Speaker amassed some incredible numbers in an era when the ball was literally dead and fences were deep and the game was ruled by pitchers.

5) Bonds may have had the most unnatural help, but the guy still has to hit the round ball squarely with a round bat. Few have done it better.

6) I would love to add Gwynn, Carew, and Boggs to my list - those guys could get out of bed on Christmas morning and lace a two - strike double 9 times ouf 10...However, more power would make them more attractive to me.

7) Aaron, Mays, Musial, and Mantle put up some eye-popping stats again in eras when the pitchers ruled. The 50's - 70's are eras where some of the least amount of runs scored. Longevity also plays in Aaron's, Musial's and May's favors.

8) Pete Rose was an above average hitter for a LONG time. I never really considered him an outstanding hitter plus he had limited power.

COOL TOPIC!

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Posted By: Joann

In no order

Ruth
Cobb
Bonds
Gehrig
Speaker
Wagner
Rose
Gwynn
DiMag
Williams

Ichiro is on there somewhere too, but I can't think of who to bump for him. Rose, probably.

Bonds? There was tiny little talk out in the weeds of even looking at a rule change for Intentional Walks just because of him. When was the last time anyone even though abou the NL changing rules? 1890's? The number of IW's alone says he is way beyond the normal player. I'd even say top 3 or 4, IMHO.

Joann

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Posted By: tim melton

aaron
gwynn
mattingly(pre injuries)
mantle
brett
mays
williams
pujols
a rodriguez
bonds

these are in no particular order...also limited to players i have seen play...as any all time list would include ruth and cobb...as well as gehrig,sisler and wagner...

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Posted By: whycough

1. Teddy Ballgame
2. The Sultan of Swat
3. Tyrus Raymond
4. The Rajah
5. Early Sisler
6. Shoeless Joe
7. Joltin' Joe
8. Josh
9. Stan The Man
10. (tie) Lou Gehrig & The Mick

Anyone who likes how Bonds (the Sultan of Shots) did it must admire the way Ben Johnson and Rosie Ruiz ran.

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Posted By: Chris

1. Cobb
2. Ted Williams
3. Barry Bonds
4. Joe Jackson
5. Rogers Hormsby
6. Babe Ruth
7. Josh Gibson
8. George Sisler
9. Stan Musial
10. Willie Mays
I have to disagree about Sisler being overrated. Why does he have to draw x number of walks to be a great hitter? The guy could flat out hit. Even when he had the vison problem he continued to hit. Had it not been for that vision problem people would put him in the same category as Williams and Cobb.Sisler batted over .400 twice! You can not do that and not be a great hitter.

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Posted By: Genaro

Just another Opinion

1. Williams even in his late 30s and the same pitchers that
Mantle Aaron Mays faced in the 50'sIn 1957 3 years before he retired 388. BA 526 OBPs 737 SLGs. Give him close to those numbers in his prime over the 5 years he missed There’s the New RBI king Home Run King and allot of other records.

2. Ruth. Played in the Modern and dead ball era. Proved dead ball era players could play with 4 and 5 man Rotations. Do I need to put his numbers up?


3. TY Cobb He hit for average got on base and was no punch and Judy hitter. Love him or hate him he also drove runs in from his spot and averaged 560 SLG in his prime years

4. Bonds I don’t like the guy but if he played in the 50s or 60 his numbers would still stand he would have a slightly lower OBPs only because Gibson Koufax and Drysdale would have actually pitched to him but his BA may even be higher.

5. Jimmy Foxx Take away the last 4 years when he was over the hill his BA OBPs and SLG would have been even higher. Did it all hit walk and drive em in.

6. Gibson ok he pitched in the Negro leagues but many of those guys if they pitched in their prime as there were several who would have been in the HOF from the majors. The other compensation he gets is the cutters spitballs and junk balls they used in that era he still may have been the home run king. Exhibit Jackie Robinson he hit 349 in 1947 after adjusting to Major Leaguers.

6. Lou Gehrig Hitting Some of the top numbers in history only 7 homers shy of 500. 340 BA 447 OBPs 632 SLGs Silent Perfection.
Never said a word just went out did his job let Ruth get all the glory, just collected rings.

7. Rogers Hornsby Played in almost identical years as the Babe and even managed to hit 15 point higher in life time average. 358 AVG 434 OBPs 577 SLG and he managed to mentor Ted Williams. He combined the Power of Ripken and the hitting of Carew in his prime. Ill say he was top second baseman of all time on my list.

8. Joe DiMaggio Simply one of the best ever he had style grace and was the backbone of all those championships. Clutch player
I would hate to have to pick between him and Willie as the greatest of all time I wouldn’t put my life on it. 3 time MVP several top fives in MVP ballot he was Joltin Joe the Yankee clipper and he was just shy of a 400 lifetime OBPs

9. Hank Aaron Ted Williams loved the guy when he was inducted into the Hitters hall of fame Ted said that Hank Willie and Joe D were the greatest players of all time and there was not much separating them. Hank faced all the best pitchers from the 50s 60s and 70s. How many times would he have walked with today’s pitchers not willing to pitch to top hitters?


10. The Mick had everything Joe D and Willie had power speed and ability to hit for average. If his knees didn’t blow out imagine how gowdy his numbers may have been how many more doubles and more drive to hit the ball. The Mantle was one of the best ever to play the game simple. He may have the lowest average on the list but he should have retired in 66 anyway still managed 477 OBPs and 577 SLG

Honorable Mention Lajoie, Musial, Sisler, Heilmann, Brett, Rose, Carew, Jackson Speaker and Wagner. There are many just below this group let the debate continue.
I could not put speaker in the top 10 but just below it as I feel you had to at least dominate 2 of the top 3 categories. And his 466 SLG and 391 OBPs just didn’t put him in my group.

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Posted By: Genaro

opps ment Wagner not speaker in the last sentence.

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Posted By: t206King

1- Cobb
2- Hornsby
3- Ruth
4- Speaker
5- Ed Delahanty
6- Cap Anson
7- Gehrig
8- Lajoie
9- Keeler
10- Collins

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Posted By: Anonymous

Chris,

A guy who hits .400+ and walks 30 times will make MORE outs than a guy who hits .400+ and walks 120 times. Making outs is not a good idea. Sisler was a free-swinger with no power.

Here are the players that baseballreference.com compare his career to:

Heinie Manush (884) *
Zack Wheat (845) *
Kiki Cuyler (837) *
Dan Brouthers (821) *
Joe Judge (820)
Jesse Burkett (818) *
Jimmy Ryan (816)
Tony Gwynn (813)
Roger Connor (811) *
Edd Roush (808) *

In 1920 when Sisler hit .407, he made 384 outs. In 1922, he made 340 outs.
In 1923 Ruth hit .393 and made 317 outs.
In 1941, Williams hit .406 and made 271 outs.

Over the course of his career, Sisler made a massive amount of outs for a .340 hitter. Furthermore, he played in an era of inflated stats. We should not judge hitters on batting average alone. It says 1B = 2B = 3B = HR and BB = 0. A George Sisler .407 is not in the same league as a Ted Williams .406 or even a Williams, Ruth, Wagner, Cobb, Mays, .370. Sisler was a free-swinging singles hitter.

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Posted By: t206King

yeah but it doesnt really matter if stats were inflatted or if he was a signles hitter, he got on base and got hits at crunch times. power isnt eveything!!!

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Posted By: Anson

I agree, power is even more overrated now than it's ever been. The fact that McGwire was even mentioned in this thread made me choke on my coffee. Forget whether he was juiced or not, the guy was a one-trick pony.

Many of the players from the tail end of the deadball era didn't have the opportunity to hit gobs of home runs. It's hard to compare eras but you have to take the rule changes and development of the game into the equation. I have a hard time NOT putting any post WWII guys on the list, as it just plain doesn't make sense. I'm sure ARod, Vladi Guerrero, or Manny Ramirez would have been quite successful in the Prewar era. The dynamics of the game have changed and most of which favor the pitchers.

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Posted By: Anonymous

It does matter if stats were inflated because we are comparing players across eras. If we were only comparing Ruth, Gehrig, Foxx, Hornsby, and Sisler. Then it won't matter if stats were inflated.

The truth of the matter is that stats were inflated and Sisler isn't even in the top five hitters from his era.

I guess to make a top ten list we would have to make the standards before we made the list. To me a total hitter hits for average, knows the strike zone, and hits for power. That gives your team the optimum chance of winning.

A HR produces a run, while it takes three singles to produce a run. See the difference?

If inflated stats, walks, and power didn't count, then just make a list of the top ten career batting averages and be done with it. And Sisler STILL doesn't make it:

1. Ty Cobb+* .3664 L
2. Rogers Hornsby+ .3585 R
3. Joe Jackson* .3558 L
4. Lefty O'Doul* .3493 L
5. Ed Delahanty+ .3459 R
6. Tris Speaker+* .3447 L
7. Ted Williams+* .3444 L
8. Billy Hamilton+* .3443 L
9. Dan Brouthers+* .3421 L
Babe Ruth+* .3421 L


But as you can see, this is faulty because it contains 3 from the 19th C, 3 from the deadball era, 3 from the 1920's - 1938, and one from 1940-1960.

It's skewed.

For more information check out Bill James's research on inflated stats, park adjustments, and win shares.

It would be fun to make a best of list:

Best total hitter:
Ted Williams

Best eye:
Ted Williams

Best Power:
Babe Ruth

Best contact hitter:
Nellie Fox

Best Right-handed hitter:
Hank Aaron

Best Singles Hitter:
Wade Boggs

Hitter I would most want to see in the cage and on the tee:
Tony Gwynn

Hitter I would most want to see take BP on the field:
Babe Ruth

Hitter I want up in the clutch:
Eddie Murray

Hitter I want to see hit a triple:
Mickey Mantle

Hitter I want to see drag bunt:
Ty Cobb and Bill Madlock

Hitter I would use to pitch:
Babe Ruth

Best Power/Speed:
Barry Bonds and Rickey Henderson

Best hitting Catcher:
Josh Gibson

Best hitting 1B:
Lou Gehrig

Best hitting 2B:
Rogers Hornsby

Best hitting 3B:
George Brett

Best hitting SS:
Honus Wagner

Best hitting LF:
Ted Williams

Best hitting CF:
Ty Cobb

Best hitting RF:
Babe Ruth

Best hitting P:
Babe Ruth
Kid Gleason
Walter Johnson
Red Ruffing

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Posted By: Lyle

1.Ty Cobb-He had both dominance and longevity
2.Babe Ruth- If he had taken better care of himself...?
3.Ted Williams-His numbers without missing his prime???
4.Joe Jackson-Talk about missing his prime years !
5.Rogers Hornsby-He stood out even during a hitter's era
6.Joe Dimaggio- He was often favorably compared to Teddy
7.Lou Gehrig-Model of consistency
8.Stan Musial-Often overlooked and greatly underrated
9.Josh Gibson-Tragic that he couldn't play in the Majors
10.George Brett-His average of .390 is the highest since Teddy .

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Posted By: Holstein

1) Cobb
2) Ruth
3) Williams
4) SJ Jackson
5) Gehrig
6) Wagner
7) Boggs
8) Lajoie
9) Carew
10) Aaron

I can't get myself to include Bonds. The guy admitted to using steroids. Steroids have the proven effect of increasing muscle mass. More muscle mass turns pop flies into homeruns. Maybe if he did not take them he would be one of the greatest at hitting sacrifice flies. Then I might include him. Look at Bonds' stats - he did not hit over 40 homeruns until his 8th year in the big leagues (28 years old). Then he hits 49 at age 35 and 73 at age 36. Hmmm.

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Posted By: Anonymous

Bonds never admitted to using steroids.

Gwynn batted .393 in 1994 - 14 years after Brett hit .390.

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Posted By: Holstein

"Barry Bonds testified to a grand jury that he used a clear substance and a cream given to him by a trainer who was indicted in a steroid-distribution ring, but said he didn't know they were steroids, the San Francisco Chronicle reported Friday.

Bonds told a U.S. grand jury that he used undetectable steroids known as "the cream" and "the clear," which he received from personal trainer Greg Anderson during the 2003 season. According to Bonds, the trainer told him the substances were the nutritional supplement flaxseed oil and a pain-relieving balm for the player's arthritis."

The above excerpt is from the 12/4/2004 ESPN.Com News Services. The transcript of the Government's questioning (which probably should not have been made public) is very interesting.

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Posted By: Shannon

Gwynn hit .394, Sisler was and is one of the greatest hitters to play. Everyone makes outs, thats a given but not to have Sisler on a top 10 list is funny. Not taking anything away from Mays and Aaron, both great hitters, but to call Sisler a free swinger is too funny. Was Aaron and Mays free swingers? They both struck out over a 1000 times more than Sisler.

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Posted By: Mark

Sadaharu Oh was a pretty good hitter too. He hit more home runs than anyone previously mentioned in this thread other than Josh Gibson, lifetime average over .300, won two consecutive triple crowns, was a 20-time all-star, led his team to 9 consecutive world series wins, and led in RBIs for 9 consecutive years.

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Posted By: Anson

Andrew, you raise a good question. How do you measure power before Babe Ruth? Was it that nobody was able to hit the longball prior to the 20's or is it that the dynamics changed?

While we want to glorify the era that we enjoy collecting, I'm hard pressed to not include more current ball players. Stats put all eras on an even playing field. However, the game has changed and readapted to many of the different dynamics. I don't think anyone can argue that. After all, look at the list that Andrew just posted. As he pointed out, we're missing the last 60 years of players.

I think the dynamics have evolved to what is more interesting for the average fan......long ball.

Michael Schell, a professor of biostatistics, authored a book about the all-time greatest hitters. He approached it using mathematical analysis and taking a few liberties, of course. However, I do find many of his arguements to be valid.

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Posted By: Bruce Babcock

My list would have to include Stan Musial. 4th all time in hits. 7 batting titles. 3 NL MVP awards. 11th all time in walks. 475 HRs and might well have had 500 if not for WW II. And he plays harmonica.

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Posted By: Charlie O'Neal

I have a hard time including current players such as Arod and Pujois on my list for now b/c their careers are not over. While there is no doubt that I wanted to add Arod to my list, his stats are not complete and his stats could dive over the next 5 years making him a average player overall. Ken Griffey Jr. would be a good example of what I am talking about.

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Posted By: Lyle

on the highest average since Williams...and you passed the test !
So far ( not counting those that said , " in no particular order " ) Cobb has 7 1st place votes, Williams 6 votes and Ruth 3 votes . Did I count correctly ?

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Posted By: jay behrens

Paul, you obviously are not member of SABR. If you were, you would have read ad nasium about what Bonds did or did not say. The one thing that every seems to pretty much agree on is that he did NOT admit to using steroids. Much of what was reported in the initial SF Chronical report was the reporter wanted people to think, not what was actually testified to. I wish I had kept all the SABR posts about this, but reposting them here would bore pretty much everyone.

In a nutshell, Bonds admited to nothing illegal and all you holier than thou fans need to get off your high horse and realize that players ahve cheated since the game started. If you are going remove Bonds for supposedly cheating with steroids, then you better remove every player from the post WW2 era, Mantle, Williams, Mays, Aaron, etc because they were all using "greenies" while they played. Players have aways cheated, and always will, no matter what the rules are. Get over it.

Tim, if you go with only players you've seen, how can you leave off Will Clark?

t206king, according to your list, all the greatest hitters in the game played before 1937. Do you honestly believe this?

For all the collectors of 19c material, there is a serious lack of 19c players. Aside from my nod to Brouthers, only Delahanty and Anson got nods from one person. Do you all think that there is no worthy 19c hitter?

JAy

I've just reached Upper Lower Class. I am now officially a babe magnet for poor chicks.

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Posted By: Chris

We will just have to disagree Andrew. There were only 8 people to bat over .400 in the 20th century and one of those 8 was Sisler. I just don't think your inflated stats theory holds true here or there would have been more to accomplish the feat. Anybody that bats over .400 in the 20th century is a pretty darn good hitter in my book.Sisler did it twice. Plus Sisler only struck out 327 times in his career. So he always made contact. Over 2800 hits in 15 seasons is pretty good to me. Especially when he missed the entire '23 season when he would have most likely collected another 200 at least. I just don't believe you have to be a power hitter to be a good hitter. I have always thought Sisler was underrated and I still believe that.

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Posted By: jay behrens

As Andrew pointed out, all .400 hitters are not created equal. The people of SABR are looking more and more at the number outs a player creates instead of the traditional numbers to determine the greatness of a hitter. Sisler created far more outs than other hitters of his era. The 1920s saw more .400 hitters than any era except the 19c which had changing and varying rules for what constituted a hit.

Sisler was undoubtable a great hitter, just not in the top 10 all-time.

Jay

I've just reached Upper Lower Class. I am now officially a babe magnet for poor chicks.

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Posted By: Anson

If you want to go strictly off of that arguement, Heilmann would have to make your list too. After all, he eclipsed .400 as a RIGHT handed hitter and missed the mark 3 times by a total of only 9 hits.

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Posted By: Holstein

Jay-

I am a member of SABR, but my opinion is not based on reading any posts by SABR members. I acknowledge that my opinion is based on the only information available, inappropriately leaked Grand Jury testimony. As neither I nor any other SABR members (unless they are attorneys for the Government or for Bonds or were members of the GJ) have seen an official transcript, we cannot be sure exactly what Bonds said. However, my opinion is based on media reports of that testimony and observations about Bonds' performance. Hank Aaron has stated to the media that he too has concerns about Bonds' "alleged" use of steroids. I am not sure if Hank Aaron is an SABR member, or if he has read any SABR posts, but he seems to feel that performance enhancing steroids give an athlete an innappropriate advantage when it comes to phsysical recuperation. The Government case against Bonds, as reported by the media, raises very serious questions. Bonds has stated that he had no knowledge that the substances he was using were steroids at the time he took them. That may be true. But if they were steroids, he still had an unfair advantage over other major leaguers who were not taking steroids.

I did not mean to offend you by my comments concerning Bonds. I enjoy reading your posts and consider you a knowledgeable individual. However, I do not believe past alleged behavior by former major leaguers excuses any bad conduct by present major leaguers. In my opinion, baseball is sacred and each transgression must be addressed when it occurs. I want my children to know that baseball will not stand for cheating, in any form. I am sure we will not ever stop cheating entirely, but we make a powerful statement when we confront it directly.

Paul

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Posted By: jay behrens

Bonds played in an era dominated by steroids. He wasn't the only player to use them. It has been born out by the positive test results, more pitchers are using steroids than hitters. Bonds' numbers are so far above what anyone else has put up, that there is little doubt he is a great hitter. If steroids were the sole answer to great hitting, then baseball would be dominated professional wrestlers.

Jay

I've just reached Upper Lower Class. I am now officially a babe magnet for poor chicks.

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Posted By: warshawlaw

1. Ruth
2. Williams
3. Cobb
4. Hornsby
5. Gehrig
6. Bonds
7. Wagner
8. Jackson
9. Gwynn
10. O'Doul

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Posted By: Andrew Parks

A free swinger doesn't mean that the hitter strikes out a lot. It means that they swung at everything. A guy who walks 30 - 40 times a year makes way too many outs to be a great hitter. I don't care what he hit. Who would you rather have? A guy who goes 1-for-3 with 7 walks or a guy who goes 4-for-10?

According to Bill James, as of 2002 George Sisler is listed at number 101 in the all-time win shares list for hitting. That means according to the greatest stats guru in baseball history (the Einstein of baseball stats) there are 100 players who were worth more to their team than Sisler was.

Now I know that Bill James failed miserably as an advisor to the Red Sox, but his research and methods for evaluating players historically is unparalleled.

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Posted By: Steve

Interesting concept regarding outs made. However it was also stated that he (Sisler) struck out only 327 times. Therfore the outs he did make were outs that put the ball in play and thus moved runners along and drove some in too. Also outs made include reached on error i imagine.

Pete Rose made alot of outs too as did I am sure Henry Aaron


Anyway my list would be:

Williams
Dimaggio
Ruth
Mantle
Mays
Musial
Cobb
Jackson
Boggs
Brett
Gwynn

Edited to add Aaron

I know i cheated I have listed more then 10. Give me a break I am new

Steve

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Posted By: Glenn

Awarding 10 points for each first place vote, 9 for each second place vote, 8 for each third place vote, etc. here are the results of the Net 54 poll.

VBC Top 25 hitters (first place votes in parentheses)

1. Ruth (3)
2. Cobb (6)
3. Williams (6)
4. Hornsby
5. Gehrig
6. Bonds
7. Jackson
8. Aaron
9. Wagner
10. Gibson
11.(tie) DiMaggio
11.(tie) Musial
11.(tie) Speaker
14. Sisler
15. Mays
16. Foxx
17. Mantle
18. LaJoie
19. Delahanty
20.(tie) Anson
20.(tie) Gwynn
22.(tie) Boggs
22.(tie) Brouthers
24. Rose
25.(tie) Carew
25.(tie) Keeler

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Posted By: Brian H (misunderestimated)

I though I would approach this somewhat chronologically (giving each decade & the Negro Leaguers a representative). The loosers in this game are basically the second best players of any decade or two (Joe Jackson, Tris Speaker, Lou Gehrig, DiMaggio),and long career players whose greatness is based on 15-25 yrs of excellence such as Cap Anson or Pete Rose. I did try to credit power and On Base percentage rather than simply batting average (hence Frank Thomas' inclusion over Griffey and Delehanty over Keeler):

Dan Brouthers
E.J. Delahanty
Honus Wagner
Ty Cobb
Babe Ruth
Rogers Hornsby
Oscar Chaleston
Stan Musial
Ted Williams
Josh Gibson
Mickey Mantle
Willie Mays
Hank Aaron
Frank Thomas
Barry Bonds


Also, how did Bill James fail the Red Sox ? You must know something I don't. More or less when he became involved (presumably at Theo Epstein's urging) they won their first World Series in ... (well we all know the story)

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Posted By: Anonymous

Bill James proposed his philosophy about relief pitching when they hired him three or four years ago and it failed miserably. I suppose some credit could be given to him for their recent win. I stand corrected.

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Posted By: Chris

Hey Andrew, Who goes 1 for 3 with 7 walks? Your comparison there makes no sense if nobody has those stats. I don't no of anyone in baseball who has walked more than twice the number of their official AB's or 7 times the number of hits they got. So yeah I will rtake that guy that walks 7 times and goes 1 for 3 but show me who he is. If not getting outs is so important to who the best hitters are shouldn't we just measure it by who has the best OB %?

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Posted By: JimCrandell

Believing that history will diminish the accomplishments of the steroid aided current stars, here's my Top 10.

Ruth
Cobb
Gehrig
Ted Williams
Shoeless Joe
Hornsby
Speaker
Lajoie
Foxx
Heilman

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Posted By: Andrew Parks

Chris,

Sorry about that, Chris. I was making a point using hyperbole. How's this?

2-for-6 with 4 walks or 4-for-10 with no walks? And no we shouldn't just use OBP. Why throw out the point I made about power?

Let me reiterate it:

SLG combined with OBP is a better indicator of a great hitter than AVG is.

Once again Batting Average claims a single is equal to a double which is equal to a triple which is equal to a home run and walks equal nothing.