is a graded card more valuable ?

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Posted By: jp

does a card thats graded vs. non graded worth more or raise the value of the actual card ? sorry if this topic has been covered before. thanks

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Posted By: Al Crisafulli

My opinion is that a graded card is more valuable for one of two reasons:

1) The slab inspires more consumer confidence as to issues like authenticity and accurately described grade

2) Some cards have low populations in higher grades and thus set completists are willing to pay a premium for them.

So, yes.

-Al

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Posted By: warshawlaw

It is not more valuable, it is more marketable. It is still the same card.

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Posted By: jp

thanks guys good way to look at it in both senses.

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Posted By: Frank Wakefield

War is on it. The card is still worth whatever the card is worth.

A dollar is worth a dollar, putting it in a fancy bejewelled case with some snotnose's opinion as to authenticity doesn't change the value of the dollar itself. The authenticated dollar might be more acceptable to those concerned about authenticity who are also incapable of reaching a conlusion on their own...

The card is still the card. Plastic around it doesn't change the card. But it does make some collectors* (I think maybe folks who collect only slabbed stuff should have an asterisk... like a home run record...) more willing to buy the card.

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Posted By: Peter_Spaeth

If the question is whether a slabbed card in fact is worth more in terms of what it can be puchased and sold for on the market, as opposed to whether it should be worth more, then the answer seems an obvious yes. People have debated to death whether this is right or wrong, the competence of the grading services, etc., but despite the anti-grading views of people like Frank (who doubtless have valid points), the reality of the marketplace speaks for itself. Even anti-grading guys who post regularly here have acknowledged they will submit cards for grading before selling. Just the way it is at this point in time anyhow -- notwithstanding all the reservations about the grading companies.

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Posted By: JimCrandell

Question is whether having it graded increases the value you could sell it for--are you really debating the issue that graded cards almost always sell for more in equal condition?

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Posted By: Al Crisafulli

As usual, Peter articulated the point I was trying to make in my first post much better than I ever could.

It is, unfortunately, reality.

-Al

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Posted By: Anonymous

Frank,
Although I agree with you, somewhat, in spirit, a dollar bill has been graded, authenticated and backed by the full faith of the United States Government.

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Posted By: drc

The answer is the cards are worth the same, but the graded card sells for more.

If Mike Gutierrez puts on eBay at $1 min bid an authentic Babe Ruth signed baseball at the same time newbie Joe Blow puts up an equivalent $1 min bid authentic Babe Ruth signed baseball, the Gutierrez ball will sell for more. Doesn't mean one ball is worth more than the other. If Gutierrez and Mr. Blow had switched balls before auction, Gutierrez' auction would still fetch more.

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Posted By: Bill Stone

Have you ever tried to convert cash in a foreign country? My experience has been that you always get a better rate of exchange with travelers checks than with cash because of the fear of counterfeit bills-so a dollar isn't always worth a dollar when there is concern about its authenticity.

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Posted By: jay behrens

I found it to be just the opposite. I could get a much better rate of change on street for cash than I could at a bank. There are also substantial risks involved in doing this though. I also used to trade my Levis for stuff. You got an even better return on your dollar that way. Then again, this was in the 80s and things may have changed a lot since them.

Jay

I like to sit outside, drink beer and yell at people. If I did this at home, I would be arrested. So, I go to baseball games and fit right in.

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Posted By: Cobby33

The question was rather simple and I think it has been answered satisfactorily.

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Posted By: Julie Vognar

Graded cards aren't more valuable; they cost more.

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Posted By: Cobby33

.

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Posted By: andy becker

i agree with drc 100%

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Posted By: Frank Wakefield

OK... some folks didn't really say Yea or Nay...

And some did, clearly enough to be counted.

Voting YES

Al C

and voting NO

Warshawlaw
me
DRC
Julie
Andy B

5 to 1, a graded card is NOT more valuable. Julie says it costs more, amen. Both to get slabbed, and when you buy it. Led Zeppelin said "The Song Remains The Same", and the card remains the same, too. It's that other fellow's opinion that some folks value, and some folks claim to actually like those holders.

I am about to hacksaw out my T206 McGraw with a sweater, a card that has gotten me close to finishing T206. Back later.

Frank.

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Posted By: jp

wow! what a great response , to all that expressed thoughts on this subject you all have made valid points and has made more aware i feel like everyone that they arent more valuable but just cost more when graded, thanks all.

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Posted By: JimB

Bill and Jay,
I have to agree with Jay. In many countries greenbacks are worth more than travellers checks on the black market, sometimes quite a bit more. The reason is that the currencies in many nations are not convertible on the open market so if wealthy people from these third world countries want to travel, they need convertable currencies. Thus they will pay a premium for them. The dollars were also used to purchase illicit items abroad as well. This was certainly the case in most Asian countries like India, Nepal, and China in the '80s and up through the mid to late'90's. It does seem like that black market is drying up these days.
JimB

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Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)

I'm not sure how this got to dollars and black markets but... it's easy to get double and more the official exchange rate for dollars on the street in countries where the governments aren't stable and the currency is vulnerable. It's obviously illegal to do this but... and besides, there's usually not a lot to buy (with the local currency) in those countries.

Now back to the main topic - Is a graded card more valuable? For the umpteenth thousand time (as stated by many) - BUY THE CARD, NOT THE SLAB.

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Posted By: Al Crisafulli

"5 to 1, a graded card is NOT more valuable."

Wait, wait, wait, wait! I'm the 1! Can I restate my position?

SHOULD the graded card be more valuable? Of course not! I agree with everyone's position here, that the card is the card.

However, that unfortunately almost never seems to be the case. Graded cards, as someone pointed out, cost more. That's because the market is willing to accept a higher price for the third-party evaluation of authenticity and condition. And if the market is willing to accept a higher price, wouldn't that mean that "the graded card is more valuable?"

I don't like it. I don't like that, for example, I bought a particular card for a set I was building (which will remain nameless) raw from an Ebay seller for $32. I had it graded by PSA and it came back an 8. I turned around and sold it for $600, then bought another raw one for $20. I was blown away by that, until the guy who bought it from me consigned it to an auction house, where it sold for $1600. What's the card worth? $1600? $600? $32?

I think it's worth $32. Someone else thinks it's worth $1600. I don't like that disparity. But it is what it is.

-Al

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Posted By: Anonymous

Al,

He is apparently not counting my vote.

Those who think a nrmt-mt ungraded card has equal or greater value than a psa 8 don't follow transaction prices very closely...or maybe they are assuming that their nrmt-mt card could be put in a PSA 8 holder.

If value means monetary value it is a silly debate--graded cards are more valuable hands down.

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Posted By: Cobby33

Valuable: "having great material or monetary value ["an amount, as of goods, services, or money, considered to be a fair and suitable equivalent for something else; a fair price or return. especially for use or exchange"]."

Worth: "The quality that renders something desirable, useful, or valuable."

So...in our analysis...don't we need clarification as to whether the question posed refers to the "graded card" being the card itself versus the card slabbed, with a sticker on it? If it were the card itself, the inquiry ends there, as the card itself is "worth" the same as an ungraded card.

But...Isn't a slabbed card with a grade on it "worth" more or has more "value" as eBay and auctions continually demonstrate? And isn't there more "value" knowing that the slabbed card is viewed, at least, as AUTHENTIC when graded? Certainly there's value there, no, as opposed to a raw card which may or may not be real?

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Posted By: drc

Anyone who buys raw cards on eBay will tell you that 8 out of 10 eBay sellers couldn't grade correctly if their butts were on fire. So it shouldn't take a genius to figure why PSA 10 Gem Mint cards sells for more than the average eBay seller who claims is a 10. Even if PSA isn't your favorite grader, you know their grading is more accurate than the average beanie babie seller.

For the bidder the issue isn't whether the the exact same cards are worth the same, but whether the cards are the exact same. After all the eBay purchaser won't be able check the grading in person until after the auction is finished and the money is paid. Until then he has to go by the information provided by a seller 500 miles away. With a PSA graded card the bidder will have confidence in what he will receive in the mail. With the Joe Blow raw card seller, there won't be the same confidence. And for bidders, more confidence translates to higher bidding.

The reason that the Mike Gutierrez auction sold more both times is because the bidder calculated that they were more likely to receive an authentic Babe Ruth signed ball in their mail. When you place a thousands dollar bid you aren't concerned with theoritical price comparisons on virtual autographs, you are concerned about what you will phyically receive in return for your check.

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Posted By: Al Crisafulli

Of course, Jim, we've all seen examples of people's "mint" cards being shipped off to grading and having them come back 7s. The response, then, is typically either "Wow, I guess I haven't been grading my cards properly," or "Those grading companies have no idea what they're talking about." When I first got interested in graded cards, my reaction was the former of the two above.

At the end of the day, as a buyer I prefer the third-party analysis, particularly when I can't hold the card in my hand first - even if this means I have to pay more money.

However, let's take a relatively innoccuous card - say, a 1961 Topps Mickey Mantle in an SGC 98 holder. Put it on Ebay and it will fetch thousands of dollars. Take that EXACT SAME CARD, pull it out of the holder, and put it back on Ebay? Hundreds of dollars.

I think the lower grade or more common the card, the less this rings true. However, as you move up the scale of either condition or scarcity, the third-party assessment becomes more of a factor because those cards often attract a different kind of buyer.

I do think there is tremendous value in mid-grade, raw cards. Even today, 75% of what I collect is in raw form. But even people on this board who prefer not to COLLECT graded cards have admitted that when they want to sell cards, they get 'em graded.

-Al

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Posted By: JimCrandell

Al,

I agree with every word you say--as usual--smart analysis.

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Posted By: Frank Wakefield

OK.... hanging chads, and a recount:

Voting YES



and voting NO

Al C
Warshawlaw
me
DRC
Julie
Andy B

6 to 0, a graded card is NOT more valuable.

And you guys still don't understand, possibly because of an inability to comprehend...

A graded card is not more valuable than an identical ungraded card. Period. The graded card may well more readily sell, and sell for more, but it is not worth more. Look at it the other way... the ungraded card could be graded and then sell for a similar high price, that didn't change the card itself, just what it is in. It is kinda like getting a pig out of a half dried up pond, washing the pig off, trimming the snout hairs, finding some nice clothes that fit... it is still a pig. And an identical mudhole pig would be worth the same.

But you guys keep buying entombed cards only. Thank you for not buying the others.

Hmmm. If I ever need to remarry, I think I'll find a matchmaker, don't want to trust my opinion on anything. Might accept a PSA 9.0, no need to hold out for a 9.5.

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Posted By: Cobby33

Another thread bites the dust.

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Posted By: Al Crisafulli

I did not retract my position, I restated it.

"The graded card may well more readily sell, and sell for more, but it is not worth more."

Frank, with all due respect, are you aware of the contradiction in this sentence?

* The card is easier to sell.
* People will pay more money for it in a "plastic tomb"

but

* It is not worth more.

It SHOULDN'T be worth more, but it is. I don't like it, as I've stated above, but it is reality. The higher the grade of the card, the more this is the case.

I'm sorry. This doesn't make your collection any better or any worse than it would be if grading did not exist. Your collection is worth whatever it's worth to you. For many of us, the monetary value of our collection is virtually irrelevant in comparison to the sentimental value. But in the "open market", as it were, graded cards generally bring higher prices. Which means that, in some circles, they are "worth more".

-Al

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Posted By: Cobby

Well said.

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Posted By: JimCrandell

Al,

We lose votes as we get more?

Some people will never get it.

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Posted By: Griffins

Must be a Florida election counter.

Put me in the "worth more" category. The lack of risk (trimming, recoloring, wrinkle) brings the higher value.
The exception would be lower grade cards-sometimes the technical grade on the slab is much lower than the eye appeal, and in that case better to crack 'em out.

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Posted By: Cobby33

Ditto- though I think there really are two questions here (value and worth). I also think everyone is clear on everyone else's position.

This is getting worse than (trying to) debate politics. Maybe there really isn't a "right answer." Who knows.

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Posted By: PC

Count me in the "worth more" category, simply because I will not buy a high dollar card unless it is graded by SGC, PSA or GAI.

The last ungraded card of any importance I purchased was a 1948 Bowman Ralph Kiner. Sent it to SGC, came back rejected as trimmed. End of story.

Also, while graded cards are "worth more" to me, personally, it does not always mean that I pay more for graded cards. For example, I have purchased T206 commons graded SGC 20 or 30 for LESS than the asking prices I've seen for the same card, in the same condition, ungraded. Also, it is common to find HOFers graded in low to mid-grade at far less than EX or NM "book value" for that card. As such, I've built quite a nice collection of cards buying off-condition material at a substantial discount to book (and believe me, most sellers would otherwise have advertised that SGC 40 card as NM, and wanted close to the NM book price for it).

However, it is certainly true that cards graded NM and above will go for multiples of the book value. Thus, I think grading (by reliable grading companies) has brought a certain fairness to the hobby, by not leaving the determination of condition to the seller (of course, a buyer can and should make that determination too, but that is not possible to do so accurately over the internet). So, if you can afford NM+ cards, great, pay the premium. But if you can't or don't want to, then be happy to pay a discount to book for lower condition cards (I know I am).

Just my opinion.