Grade the graders

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Posted By: nbrazil

Bear with me...

I'm a numbers guy and like to frame ideas and thoughts in data. There has been a lot of talk on these boards about how one grading company is better than another. What do these opinions look like from a numerical perspective?

From a scale of 1 to 10, rate the following grading companies according to your confidence in the company's ability to correctly grade pre war cards. A one represents no confidence whatsoever...I would NEVER send a pre war card to this company. A 10 represents 100% confidence...I would not hesitate to have any pre war card sent to this company for grading. A five represents neutrality...I have some confidence in the company's ability to correctly grade a pre war card, but have an equal amount of reservation.

Here are the companies...

BVG
GAI
PSA
SGC

Once I get a critical mass of responses, I'll summarize how the board, from a numerical perspective, feels about each company. This is not meant to be scientific in any sense of the word...just personal curiosity.

[Archive]

Posted By: Jason L

SGC = 10
PSA = 7
BVG = 5
GAI = 0

Edited to Add:
GAI originally got a 1 in my tally, but I docked them a point for not staying in business consistently. Alledgedly.

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Posted By: Eric Brehm

PSA - 9 (90% confidence)
SGC - 9
GAI - 8
BVG - 8

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Posted By: T206Collector

SGC - 9
PSA - 5
BVG - 5
GAI - 3

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Posted By: Marc S.

SGC - 92 / 8.5
PSA - 8
BVG - 3 (as I've seen them miss alterations)
GAI - 1.5

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Posted By: Wesley

SGC 9
PSA 9
GAI 8
BVG 5

According to your instructions, we are to rate confidence in the company's ability to correctly grade pre war cards. Customer service would be rated a little differently.

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Posted By: Jeff Prizner

SGC - 9
PSA - 8
GAI - 2
BVG - 1

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Posted By: nbrazil

"Customer service would be rated a little differently."

Yes...disregard customer service. Just the company's ability to correctly grade the card.

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Posted By: JK

sgc - 9
bvg - 6
psa - 5
gai - 3

I rate bvg slightly higher than psa only because I believe Im more likely to get an undergraded card rather than an overgraded card from them. That card can then be safely crossed to sgc. I have very little confidence in psa graded cards - particularly those graded higher than a 4.

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Posted By: Jason L

since that is the service they are providing.

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Posted By: Rob Dewolf

SGC -- 8

PSA -- 7

BVG -- 4

GAI -- 3

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Posted By: Jon Canfield

SGC - 8
PSA - 8
GAI - 7
BVG - 6

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Posted By: steve

PSA - only one I send to - gets best prices (generally)

SGC - gladly buy, but too tough to send in cards

BVG - blue moon occasion - will buy card, not case - never send

GAI - too much other stuff to gamble - bad crossover experience going to PSA - never send

steve

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Posted By: Steve Murray

BVG (I have no experience with this company)
GAI 6
PSA 6
SGC 9

Though you didn't ask:

PRO 1
CSA 2

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Posted By: Alan U

BVG = 3
GAI = 3
PSA = 8
SGC = 8

As to high end stuff (PSA 6-7 or better) my confidence is much lower on vintage cards for all companies, due to the liklihood of card alterations and the money involved.

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Posted By: Frank Wakefield

SGC - 9
PSA - 7
BVG - 6
GAI - 4



I started to rank GAI a bit better... but then it seems that they get sent cards with problems more often than the other guys, when the submitter has hopes of just getting the card into a slab. Once slabbed, some buyers buy the slab instead of the card, to their own detriment.

[Archive]

Posted By: Rob

imo, "grading" a card is fairly easy. its just the condition the card is in. all of them can do it well, but some are more consistent than others.

SGC - 9 (tough graders, miss very little IMO)
PSA - 6 (occasionally overgrade, IMO)
GAI - 5 (inconsistent)
BVG - 7 (before going to BVG, Beckett did well at grading vintage cards and were tough - I'd give them a 9 - but they are much more lenient with their more recent BVG system and sometimes inconsistent)

some side notes:
1) the above is just "grading". determining authenticity is a different subject. i'd put the most trust in SGC, then BVG, then PSA, then GAI.
2) slab LOOKS, i'd rate them SGC by a long shot, then PSA, then GAI and BVG
3) slab protection, i like BVG the best. you don't have to worry if your beckett slab has been tampered with, cuz the thing is bulletproof. Though I've never tried tampering with a slab, the general consensus seems to be PSA is next-toughest, and SGC is pretty easy to get into. no idea about GAI.

Rob

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Posted By: keyway

SGC=9.5 CSA=8.5 PSA=8 GAI=7.5 BGS=5 Since I have no faith in BGS grading of early cards I gave them a low grade.

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Posted By: JimCrandell

GAI 9
PSA-8
SGC-8
Beckett-2

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Posted By: Dave F

SGC 9
PSA 7
BVG 4
GAI 2

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Posted By: Matt

keyway - you have more confidence in a CSA slab then a PSA slab?

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Posted By: Turner Engle

SGC 9
PSA 8
BVG 5
GAI 2

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Posted By: bigfish

SGC 10 out of 10 - top notch
PSA 5 out of 10 - too many mistakes. Example: paperloss on the PSA 5/6 example. A few examples in current auctions.
BVG 4 out of 10. Getting better in my opinion.

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Posted By: Erick Lewin

SGC - 9.5 The Best
PSA - 8
GAI - 6.5
BVG - 5 due to inexperience in pre war (would rate 8 or 9 for new cards)

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Posted By: leon

Is it Monday yet?

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Posted By: Alan U

Leon, this might be a stupid question, but what's happening on Monday?

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Posted By: leon

Sort of an inside Net54 board joke. GAI was supposed to be open for business several Mondays ago. A few Mondays passed and nadda. So it's sort of a running joke "Is it Monday yet?" I understand they are supposed to be back open now but I haven't really heard anything more. regards

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Posted By: quan

SGC...9
PSA...8 not happy lately
GAI...5 overgrade imo
BVG...5 good value when they're right, still grading reprints???

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Posted By: barrysloate

SGC 9
PSA 7
GAI 5*
BVG 4

* assuming they are still in business.

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Posted By: Scott Mt. Joy

PSA 8
SGC 8
GAI 4
BVG 2

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Posted By: sagard

PSA - 8. More likely to get an overgraded card.
SGC - 7. More likely to get an undergraded card.
GAI - 1. Can't be trusted at this point.
BVG - 1. There has to be a reason for the card not sitting in a real holder.

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Posted By: JimB

SGC 8.5 (Knocked down a notch for their nasty habit of undergrading cards - a wrong grade is a wrong grade - but otherwise great)
PSA 8 (used to be better, but I think sheer volume has taken its tole on consistency. WIsh they would have designated graders for different eras of cards.)
GAI 2.5 (Don't trust them on so many levels).
BVG ?? (Never used them, never owned a card graded by them)

JimB

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Posted By: Jerry Hrechka

SGC - 8
PSA - 7
GAI - 3
BVG - 3

Then there are the guys who decide what mistakes the above 4 make & what grades do the "Graders of the graders" get, but that's whole 'nother thread.

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Posted By: Fred C

SGC = 9.5
PSA = 9.0
SCD = 9.0 (the old SCD)
GAI = 7.0
BVG = 7.0

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Posted By: David B

SGC 10 - Was going to go 9 but with their guarantee can't go wrong. Could be less harsh grading certain issues. The company I trust above all others.
PSA 7 - Have seen more overgraded cards from PSA than the others.
GAI 4 - Was a 6 until the recent events.
BVG 6 - With reservations. Only owned a few but they were accurately graded.

Just my humble opinion

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Posted By: Tony Andrea

SGC - 9 (Harsh graders but still the best by a mile)
PSA - 7 (Due mostly to poor customer service)
GAI - 6 (I still have no problem buying a GAI card)
BVG - 1 (Not confident with their expertise when it comes to pre war)

Tony

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Posted By: Dave S

SGC 9 Tough, but consistent
PSA 6 Re$ale, but agree with tendency to overgrade
BVG 5
GAI 5, if buying...
GAI 1, if slabbing my own

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Posted By: dan mckee

BVG N/A
GAI 2
PSA 4
SGC 6

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Posted By: Joe_G.

I'll bite as well (from the perspective of 19th century sets). . .

SGC 8.5 The best, but no one gets it right all the time, even SGC has room to improve.
PSA 4.5 PSA just doesn't understand OJ & GQ, two of my favorite sets. With greater frequency than the others, they mis-label, grade altered, and don't even try to hide how clueless they are. Case in point, the N173 Connor on eBay (not the GQ mistake that lists a small GQ as large). PSA decided to list the pose which is a cool idea but "BATTING OUTDOOR SCENE"??, come on! Connor has 3 batting poses, all shot in a studio indoors. The correct pose description (Cartophilic listing) would be "Bat at ready, L/profile". There is a good reason why a much smaller SGC has graded more than twice as many OJs than PSA. Unless something drastically changes to either SGC or PSA, that gap will only grow.
GAI 6.0 A host of issues themselves but certainly better than PSA if for no other reason that their cards don't slip around.
BVG ?.? I don't have enough experience with BVG to fairly grade them.

Best Regards,
Joe Gonsowski

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

SGC 9
PSA 6
BVG 2
GAI 0
PRO 0

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Posted By: Larry

SGC = 4
PSA = 3
SCD (red label) = 2
BVG = 2
KSA = 1
ASA = 1
Old CSA = 1
PRO = 0
GAI = 0

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Posted By: George

SGC 9
PSA 7 (not consistent in my opinion)
GAI 4 (most GAI graded cards I have either look trimmed or do not fit the grade)
BVG 2
PRO -10 (not on the list but have a 1 PRO beauty graded a whopping 9.5...NOT!)

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Posted By: 1880nonsports

descriptively but my hierarchy/ranking a bit different:

SGC - 9. More likely to get an undergraded card.
PSA - 6. More likely to get an overgraded card.
GAI - 2. Can't be trusted at this point.
BVG - 1. There has to be a reason for the card not sitting in a real holder. My one and only experience - I own one N29 in BVG and it looks pretty good to me. I never saw the card out of the holder however).
CSA/ASA/PRO and a host of others - (-9)
You are REALLY taking chances with the others

my biggest problem with SGC is that I think their grades are a bit harsh when it comes to differentiating what deserves to be lowered and to what degree... example might be a card with all the atributes of a nearmint card in the N28 series given a 30 for a head-of-a-pin sized spot of loss on a blank portion of the reverse - or some of my N43's in clearly exmt condition (or better!) save a lightly penciled "7" on the back graded "40". I erased the mark on the back of one with an eracer and with a special powder on the other. One got a "40" and the other a "30". Still feel they are the most diligent.......

(edited for clarity)

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Posted By: dan mckee

Someone with nothing but time on their hands should tally these stats for an overall average of each. Dan.

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Posted By: 1880nonsports

and little life.

THE RESULTS:

SGC - head and shoulders abopve the rest. Buy SGC for your collection of pre-war baseball cards.

PSA - for now continue to sell PSA but see above as confidence wanes and the gap narrows. They are a high volume service and don't pay enough attention to the details. Sole issue as I see it is the registry.

The rest - ya pays ya money and takes ya chances..... Buy the card but FEAR the holder.....

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Posted By: Eric Brehm

<deleted>

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Posted By: steve yawitz

SGC - 8
PSA - 5
BVG - 5
GAI - 2

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Posted By: Anonymous

Mine November 27 2007, 1:42 PM
********************

SGC - 92 / 8.5
PSA - 8
BVG - 3 (as I've seen them miss alterations)
GAI - 1.5
**********************

Funny stuff Mark S !!!

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Posted By: Frank Evanov

PSA 8
SGC 7
BECKETT 5
GAI 1

Frank

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Posted By: Andrew

SGC: 9 (the best by far in my opinion)
PSA: 7 (not nearly as consistent as SGC)
GAI: 5 (why do they treat paper loss so differently than SGC and PSA?)
BVG: n/a