Joe Gordon - HOF

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Posted By: jdrum

Just announced.

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Posted By: Jodi Birkholm

Ridiculous. Might as well induct every other slightly above-average Yankee.

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Posted By: Zinn

I don't recall having heard of this guy.

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Posted By: J Levine

Gordon? Really? Yuck...

Wow...a career .268 hitter!!

Most comparable stats according to baseball reference...
Jose Valentin (902)
Bret Boone (900)
Jorge Posada (891)
Adrian Beltre (890)
Vern Stephens (890)
Javy Lopez (890)
Bill Nicholson (889)
Doug DeCinces (883)
Ken Caminiti (881)
Kirk Gibson (880)

Sad...I was hoping Santo and Hodges might make it.

Joshua

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Posted By: Chris Counts

Oh, Boy ... get ready for the latest installment of the never-ending debate on the comparative merits of borderline Hall-0f-Famers. As always, I fall into the category that wants more ... and not less ... Hall-of-Famers. I guess I'm in the minority here. As for Joe Gordon, he was a solid, all-around player with excellent power, a good glove and a knack for playing on winning teams. I would have put about 12 or 14 other guys in Cooperstown first, but I really can't complain because I have few more Hall of Fame cards in my collection than I had yesterday ...

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Posted By: Matt

He may be a product of guys like Ozzie Smith - once the Hall decided they would accept infielders who were great defensively and only average at the plate, they re-evaluated other such players they passed over. I think Omar Vizquel gets in, if Joe Gordon gets in.

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Posted By: John H.

I don't think it's ridiculous. Gordon was a helluva player during a war shortened 11 year career who also contributed a monster year to a WS championship with Cleveland. He also won a MVP award in 1942, even though it should have gone to Williams who won the Triple Crown. I think Gordon's a guy who could have gone in a lot sooner.

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Posted By: James Feagin

The Hall of "watered down".

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Posted By: Jodi Birkholm

I always figured the Gordon-Vern Stephens comparison would spark heated debate between Yankees and BoSox fans, yet I heard no such conversation as each man was nominated this year. Both men were solid players, but neither deserves induction.



I ran into Gordon's daughter Judy many years ago. I had a signed GPC up on eBay, and she happened to see it and thought it was great to see her Dad's signature up for sale. Gordon was such a willing and prolific signer in his brief 63 years on this earth that there will never be a shortage of autographs out there. I will be curious to see what signed items will fetch in the next month. Premium items (single-signed ball, bat, quality photographs) will be sound investments, but cuts and 3X5s, as well as newspaper photos, are very common.

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Posted By: Paul

I think Joe Gordon was the worst pick for MVP ever when he beat out Ted Williams in 1942, a year when Williams won the triple crown. I don't think he's a particularly deserving Hall of Famer either, but probably not the worst. I've heard comparisons to Doerr, who I also don't think is a particularly deserving Hall of Famer.

More to the subject of this Board, I've got a few post-war cards of him. Does anyone know what pre-war cards he has?

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Posted By: barrysloate

The bigger issue is: what is his rookie card?

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Posted By: leon

I think I have seen some R303 cards of him....

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Posted By: Rob D.

I hope Beckett has enough oversized holders on hand to handle the flood of submissions of team-issued, photo-pack pictures they're about to receive.



Best double-play combo ever? E-mail for scans and Bump for price reduction

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Heh...I didn't think I could get more infuriated today after hearing that Merrill Lynch's CEO recommended himself for a $10,000,000 bonus....

I was wrong.

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Amazingly enough not one single item appears in an ebay search yet for "Joe Gordon Rookie".

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Posted By: Matt

His R303B is on eBay. Who is gonna grab it?

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Posted By: JimB

Joe who???

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Posted By: Dan McHugh IV

the 1st thing I did when I saw he got in was go to ebay and search for his RC but I also would like to know what it is? I will find out later when I go home,
Dan

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Posted By: Kevin Cummings

I would hardly call him great defensively and to mention him in the same breath as Ozzie Smith to defend the pick as a "glove man" is a stretch. Compare their two sets of stats - Smith's were head-and-shoulders above his peers during his tenure; not Gordon's.

He did have some good home run and RBI totals for a second baseman, but nothing else about him really stands out other than his MVP award in 1942.

I'm a Yankee fan and I think this was a bad pick. I would much rather have seen Deacon White or Bill Dahlen have gotten in.

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Posted By: boxingcardman

The Yankees variation. Likely issued in 1939.

Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc

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Posted By: Matt

Kevin - I think you're right. I must have mis-remembered reading at some point that he was a stellar defensive player. Checking his stats that does not seem to be the case.

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Posted By: barry arnold

never heard of him.
I guess he didn't play between 1909-1911.

best,
barry

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Posted By: Chris Counts

Just think, one more vote and Allie Reynolds would have made too. I don't think he was on anybody's radar ...

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Posted By: Rhys

Just in case anyone really wants to spend a fortune, his rookie is........


1936 Overland Candy.



If anyone owns this the card just went from a $500 item to a $2,000+ item overnight.

Rhys Yeakley

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Posted By: Matt

nice one Rhys - from the 2008 REA (bottom right):

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Posted By: Marty Ogelvie

Joe Gordon, love it!! Go Yankees!

marty

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Posted By: Rhett Yeakley

Here is Joe's strictly pre-war checklist...

Gordon, Joseph L. (Joe)

1938 Baseball Mag Prem
1941 Double Play 67-68
1941 Double Play 83-84
1939 Goudey R303A
1939 Goudey R303B (2 - B/W or Sepia)
1936 Overland Candy
1941 Wheaties Champs 21



My only Gordon card, wishing now I had bid more on the Overlands in REA...

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Posted By: Chris Counts

Yesterday, this was a $5 card. Today, it's ... probably not worth much more than that ... not bad for a pre-war rookie ...

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Posted By: Steve Murray

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Posted By: Shawn Chambers

Gordon is a shocker to me...

Anyone have a link to the voting. This makes my man Bobby Veach look better and better!

Shawn

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Posted By: Greg Ecklund

Gordon's selection is a joke - he was quite a good player, but does anyone think he would even be considered if he had played for the Browns or Senators?

The only player from either Veterans Committee ballot that deserves to get in is Ron Santo, and he should have been elected a long time ago.

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Posted By: jdrum

"Under the revamped rules, another committee including Hall of Famers, historians and members of the BBWAA examined 10 players whose careers began prior to 1943.



Aside from Gordon, that group included Bill Dahlen, Wes Ferrell, Sherry Magee, Carl Mays, Allie Reynolds, Vern Stephens, Mickey Vernon, Bucky Walters and Deacon White. Gordon was the only survivor."

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Posted By: Rob D.

Contained within this link are the voting results and a list of who is on the Veterans Committee.



Results of the 2008 Pre-1943 Players Ballot (nine votes needed for election):

Gordon (10 votes, 83.3 percent)

Allie Reynolds (eight, 66.7 percent)

Wes Ferrell (six, 50.0 percent)

Mickey Vernon (five, 41.7 percent)

Deacon White (five, 41.7 percent)

Bucky Walters (4, 33.3 percent)

Sherry Magee (three, 25.0 percent)

Bill Dahlen, Carl Mays and Vern Stephens (fewer than three).

Edited to add: Under "hopenchange" rules, would it be possible to redistribute one of Gordon's votes -- which he doesn't really need and, as has been pointed out here, deserve -- and give it to Reynolds, who obviously needs -- and possibly deserves -- it more?

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Posted By: Jimi

The Hall of Fame will decide whether Gordon goes into Cooperstown as a Yankee or Indian. The decision is based on where a player had his biggest moments.

Said Feller, jokingly, "There's enough Yankees in the Hall of Fame. He should go in as an Indian."

Amen......

Jimi

Always looking for T222 Fatimas!

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Posted By: LetsGoBucs

What is even worse is that Reynolds almost made it.

Gordon was a good solid ballplayer. He was on some winning teams. He's a minor star. He doesn't belong in the HOF IMO.

At this rate we'll need to reconsider guys like Bill Madlock, Dick Groat, Al Oliver, etc.

Perhaps what needs to be done is to have a HOF which is really a HOF. And then have a Hall of Stars next to it where they can induct people due to being a star for a period of time, or a really great character, or having done something out of the ordinary or very well in the playoffs or for a few years, etc.

I just can't get excited about finding all my joe gordon cards because he's a HOF now.

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Posted By: keyway

Joe Gordon in the HOF. Can't believe it. Maybe I can get in for my little league base stealing. What a joke.

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Posted By: Jodi Birkholm

...and I will open up a Hall of Fame which enshrines nothing but Negro Leaguers without verifiable statistics and mediocre Yankees! Nay, I will simply re-elect Wilmer Fields and Tom Sturdivant year after year. We will have a picnic every Labor Day. There will be jazz. And balloon animals.

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Joe Gordon....who ?

Well, have you ever heard of Bill Mazeroski ? ?

Both Gordon and Maz were career All-Star 2nd Baseman......and, if Maz is in......then Joe Gordon
deserves to be in, for Joe was an all-around better player and has 6 World Series rings to prove it.

The 1941 World Series was his best performance......

GA......5
AB.....14
H........7
HR......1
RBI.....5
BB......7
BA.... .500
SLG... .929


However, I would have preferred to have seen Bill Dahlen and Gil Hodges selected this year.

But, Joe's alright with me.


TED Z

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

I'm surprised at the general sentiment here; I think as a second baseman Gordon deserves entry into the HOF.

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Posted By: Donavon Arabie

How strange? I was just thinking about how I overpayed for this one about a month ago for my set. Now, it's not looking so bad.

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Posted By: Rob D.

While I'm a staunch advocate of everyone collecting what they like and the naysayers be damned, this selection illustrates perfectly why I've always resisted putting together a Hall of Fame (rookie or not) collection.

Yesterday there was a large group of baseball card collectors who could not have cared less about owning a Joe Gordon card. And today, because of a margin of two votes by a relatively small group of voters who are qualified or unqualified -- depending on your opinion -- to make such a decision, those same collectors will be seeking Joe Gordon cards.

Most would agree that there is a core group of Hall of Famers whose cards most any collector would love to own. But if my collecting goals were driven in part by the likes of Veterans Committee members Wade Boggs, Orlando Cepeda and Monte Irvin, I'd have to stop and think twice.

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Posted By: Greg Ecklund

Rob...well said - I have the same feelings as you

Unless I'm trying to put a set together I'm simply not going to pay premium prices for a card of Rick Ferrell, Jesse Haines, Travis Jackson, Fred Lindstrom, etc.

To pay up for those cards just because a group of old timers decided to reward one of their buddies or said "ah hell, why not reward old Freddie...he's still alive!" makes no sense to me.

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Posted By: howard

For what it's worth, Joe Gordon was considered a superstar while he was an active player. In his eleven seasons he was named by The Sporting News the top second baseman in the major leagues nine times. In those seasons he was chosen over fellow Hall of Famers Billy Herman, Bobby Doerr, Red Schoendienst and even Jackie Robinson once. I doubt any similarly honored players are not or will not be in the Hall.

Howard

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Dale Murphy was considered a superstar too I guess we should enshrine him today as well? Joe Gordon does not have the qualifications for the Hall of Fame...arguably there are others already in who also shouldn't be, but that doesn't mean you compound the problem by adding more borderline players.

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Posted By: Phil Garry

Thanks for the heads-up guys/gals. I just picked up a 1938 M114 on ebay for $18.00 using BIN. I have to state that the 1936 Overland Candy date listed in the 2009 SCBB must be incorrect as Joe Gordon never played a Major League game prior to 1938 so the issue must be at best a 1936-1938 time span.

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Posted By: dan mckee

Looks like Cal Ripken stats, when he went in, I said they might as well build a large addition to the Hall of Fame if every 270 hitter with 20 home runs per year gets in.

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Joe Gordon was a second baseman, not a power-hitting outfielder. And he had one less year of 100 RBI than Dale Murphy did. Murphy was a really good player who burned out quickly; Gordon's stellar play lasted a few years longer. He's obviously a border-line HOFer but I still think he merits induction.

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Posted By: howard

To expand on Jeff's point, had it not been for two years lost to the war Gordon would have had a good shot of breaking the HR record for second baseman. In addition I would imagine that he lost a good number of HRs simply because he was a right handed hitter playing in Yankee Stadium.

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Posted By: Paul

Rob D. makes an excellent point about HOF collectors being subject to the whims of the committee du jour. I am a Hall of Fame collector myself. And originally I drew the line at players who I thought were unqualified. So, for the longest time, I did not have Harry Hooper, Tommy McCarthy, Roger Bresnahan, Eppa Rixey, and others. But over time, the group I didn't have became smaller and smaller, and, apart from McCarthy, they didn't cost much. So I went ahead and bought them.

Then they elected Bid McPhee. I already had everyone else, so I had to have his card. That was obviously a lot of money for a player I had never heard of.

Then they elected Biz Mackey and friends. Ditto.

Now they've elected Barney Dreyfuss. Ditto again. Still looking for that one.

So, I feel exactly the pain and sense of utter stupidity that Rob D. alludes to. I do occasionally consider selling off the HOFers I don't care about and putting that money into cards I do care about. Maybe some day I'll do it. But for now I'm pretty happy owning all the Hall of Famers except Dreyfuss and Pete Hill.

And I do already have a Leaf card of Joe Gordon.

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Posted By: Misunderestimated

Not a great choice -- especially in terms of the other candidates in his bracket.

"Missing-years during the war" makes it difficult to evaluate players like Gordon and he played a tough and especially valuable position. Certainly he's entitled to credit for that, and for his role in winning championships.

Even so I have the sneaking feeling that he got in by jumping over a bar that Scooter Rizutto held down for him . . .



Dahlen, for example, was a much better shortstop defensively and his career offensive numbers are vastly superior, especially when you factor in the era in which he played.



Shorter careers with high "peak value" are always problematic because they don't yield the big raw numbers -- look at the career #s for HOFers like Koufax, Dizzy Dean, Kirby Puckett, Ross Youngs, Addie Joss, Hughie Jennings (for starters). . .



I would put him in the lower 40% of the HOF -- not nearly the least worthy SS in the HOF ---> off-hand I think Wallace, Tinker, Maranville, Aparicio, Sewell, & Travis Jackson are all worse.
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Edited to add that as a HOF collector Gordon's does not create any hardship -- as Dreyfus did. . . Actually I already have an acceptable Gordon card.