What are the rarest post WWII cards (1945-1979)

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Posted By: Mike

What do you think are the rarest post WWII cards ? I thought of the following: 1949 Leaf Satchel Paige, 1954 Bowman # 66 Ted Williams, 1959 Fleer # 68 Ted Williams, 1953 Glendale Hot Dogs Art Houtteman.

That's a few off the top of my head.

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Posted By: Dave Hornish

There's probably a dozen Topps test issues rarer than the cards listed above and if you count other makers dozens more.

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Posted By: J Levine

David is correct on the Topps test stuff but if you want an issue that was actually distributed I would have to go with Felin Frank's with Lummis peanut butter a close second. Just really really rare...

Oh yeah...there supposedly is a Mascot Dog Food card for Robin Roberts. I have never ever seen one for sale or otherwise.

Joshua

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Posted By: Dave Hornish

Were the Felin's actually distributed? I would have to check but believe they were not. I am not 100% sure that Mascot Roberts exists (and isn't gross that it would be an F issue?!)

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Posted By: DD

1963 Pepsi Colt 45's John Bateman, 1962 Salada Williams, Brandt and Bailey variations.

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Posted By: Anthony N.

Up in the running (besides those mentioned above)....

Any '61 Dice Game, any '70 Cloth Sticker, '60 Fleer #80's Grove, Tinker and Collins.
Not quite as scarce but still really, really tough are '58 Hires Test with tabs.
I'm sure there are a few dozen other cards that rank up there. The Leaf Paige is tough, but not by any means impossible.
Most overrated scarcity, IMO? '54 Bowman Ted Williams.

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Posted By: Randy Trierweiler

My vote is for the 1960 Leaf Proofs. I saw a "set" of them at the Cleveland National and started salivating.

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Posted By: fkw

Dont know if your question means only the run of the mill sets (ie, Topps, Bowman, etc.), or any postwar cards including regionals.


There are cards that are only known as a single unique example. So they are obviously rarer than any other card.


I have one that I have yet to hear of another example....


(Im also posting this to see if anyone has or knowns of any others from this set)

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Posted By: Bob

All of the above are good candidates. Sometimes it depends on just what you're looking for:

1951 Topps Major League All-Stars Stanky, Roberts, and Konstanty
1980 Topps Pepsi All-Stars Ron Guidry
1974 Clarence Mengler Baseball Best Ralph Garr
1967 Ashland Oil Jim Maloney
1968 Atlantic Oil Winner's cards

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Posted By: boxingcardman

1958 Bell Gino Cimoli
1952 Globe PCL
1959 Morrell Dodgers


Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc

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Posted By: larry

ashland oil maloney
bob...do you have that card?
dont know anyone who has one

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Posted By: Pennsylvania Ted

How often do you see any one of these 36 cards ?











TED Z

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Posted By: DD

For the 49 Bowman PCL's, the PSA set registry has almost a dozen complete sets (if you combine all listed), plus many others not found in sets.

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Posted By: larry

how many of these have you ever seen
especially with the tab
or any of the other single prints
as far as the yoo hoo with full tabs
ive only seen 2 ever and i own them both

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

I saw only 3 sets listed in the PSA Rgistry that are in COLLECTOR's hands. The other 2 are in Auctions.
Besides my set, I only know of two other ungraded complete sets. I'm sure there are more; but, not that many more.

These babies are very, very tough. You seldom see them on ebay or at BB card shows.

TED Z

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Posted By: DD

I looked at the wrong set; sorry. Still, at least 6 sets is way more than pretty much any of the other cards listed.

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

DD

OK, we agree that there are only 6 of these sets listed on the PSA Registry. And, we can add my 2 PCL sets
and 2 others that I know of.....that's not too many in the larger picture of the collecting hobby.

The Registry can be misleading when it comes to higher priced scarce cards. It's just like the PSA POP reports,
that always list a greater number of Stars than Commons. And this is so, since the stars have the higher $$$$
value. The name of the game nowadays is dollar value for HOFer's and Scarce cards......not simply collecting
sets. Otherwise Commons would show up on the POP reports in greater numbers.

I have been collecting sets for 31 years, and it took me 20 years to complete TWO of these PCL sets. If you
are interested in more info on the 1949 Bowman PCL cards, Mark Macrae and I wrote an article on this set in
the March-April 1997 Vintage & Classic Baseball Collector magazine (issue #10).

TED Z

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Posted By: Bob

Larry,

I don't have one, and I've never seen one.

Bob

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Posted By: Marc S.

Is the Pepsi Ron Guidry harder than any of the others....or is it just harder for your collection? Curious -- as I thought most examples from that set had approximately two known.

1967 Topps Stand-Ups aren't easy, nor are some of the 1968 Topps 3-D variations.

1977 Reggie Jackson in Orioles uniform, also.

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Posted By: Bob Fisk

Marc,

The Standard Catalog says that two of the three Guidry's printed were destroyed when Topp's deal with Pepsi fell through. As far as I know, there are at least three of the rest of them (unless the whole story is bogus).

Bob

Since you mentioned the '68 3-Ds, I'd have to add the Brooks Robinson 3-D prototype to the list of the rarest post-war cards.

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Posted By: larry

rare? 1958 tom bowers call bulletin even without the tab

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Posted By: Marc S.

Have to mention Herrer error. Not the hardest on this list -- but definitely very few exist. I really like the one Levi has that is missing the "RA" and part of the e.

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Posted By: Anthony N.

Maybe we should split this list into mainstream and non mainstream issues.

For the mainstream, I'd put these on the list, in no order:

1. Any '49 Bowman PCL
2. '51 Topps Konstanty, Stanky and Roberts
3. '60 Fleer #80 Grove, Tinker and Collins
4. '58 Topps Herrer
5. '57 Topps Bakep

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Posted By: fkw

Isnt the 1958 Herrer just a poor quality print screwup and not a true man made design change error/variation?

Ive seen a few of them and they are all different, from missing 1/4th of the last letter to almost 3 letters in the last name.

If its called a true variation and cataloged as such then every single T206 card with a color missing or screwed up is a variation that should be cataloged too.

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Posted By: DD

and will also add, in addition to the ones already listed in this thread: Topps Hocus Focus cards (still an incomplete checklist for the 1955 set), and 1963 Topps Mickey Mantle mask (I own one and have seen 1 other in the last 32 years.

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Posted By: larry

could we get a scan of your mantle mask

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Posted By: larry

and lets not forget these
might be rarer then all

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Posted By: Anthony N.

Agree on the '55 Stamps, but I wouldn't consider that a mainstream issue, more of a test issue like the '61 Dice game, '68 3D, etc
I think '70 Cloth Stickers would rank further up the rarity scale than the '55's, but will defer to Larry, Al and Bob on that.

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Posted By: larry

as far as issues that were for sale to the public or distributed through contests or newspapers etc
I think that winning contest cards (atlantic oil, american oil,ashland oil) are virtually impossible to find as the company didnt want anyone to win the single print call bulletins especially the bowers( just check the pop)
These issues just arent as popular with collectors
55 stamps 61 dice 70 cloth and 51 connie mack big 3 were not released to the public
67 discs are rare but several sheets of proof runs have been cut up
the 68s are many times rarer also not released to the public
3ds were sold to the public as well as 67 standups and punchouts

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Posted By: DD

It is in my brother's safety deposit box, 2,800 miles away. It was his as a kid, and I bought it from him, but have not had it shipped to me yet. It's safe where it is.

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Posted By: larry

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Extremely tough to find are the 60 cards that were reissued with GRAY cardboard backs from the mid-series in the 1952 Topps set.

Cards #131 - #190 were originally issued in 1952 with WHITE cardboard backs. Subsequently, this series of 60 cards were printed
on GRAY cardboard. No one seems to know why or how they were issued ?

However, advanced collectors of the 1952 Topps set, who strive to complete a Master Set, are willing to pay a premium to acquire
these seldom seen cards.






TED Z

edited scan size

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Posted By: TONY Galovich

Some of the items being mentioned are not rare or even scarce, which are 2 of the most overused words in the hobby
Maybe a graded card with a Total Pop in the single digits should be considered as rare
But the rarest of the rare are Unique cards
One Known
I recall a conversation with veteran collector Clay Hill many yrs ago & we were discussing rare cards & he thought there were over 100 to as many as 200 cards where only one card was known, but they covered all era's
of course that number probably has changed as new cards have surfaced over the yrs,
But I still bet there are over 100++ cards that Unique
But for postwar cards that number is probably much smaller but there are probably dozens of
Unique cards in the hobby
Now If someone wanted to try & identify all Unique cards in the hobby that would be a interesting project
Maybe we can start sending in our candidates for Unique hobby cards & start a Xlist of Known Unique cards
I know a dealer who had over 100 59 fleers #68 in his inventory, so I think that removes that card from the rare category
But 2 issues I had that are killers are the Felin Franks & 55 topps stamp issues, items that rarely surface in any grade

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Posted By: larry

to me the definition of rarest are cards that there are probably less than 5 of any card in the set in existence
felin franks 55 topps stamps certainly qualify
61 dice game 66 punchouts 70 cloth stickers also qualify
in fact 66 punchouts maybe be unique only 1 of each card known has ever surfaced
call bulletin tom bowers and contest winner cards from ashland atlantic and american oil may also qualify
cards like 59 fleer and 54 bowman ted williams are common by anyones measure
they can be found quite readily 1000s exist in all grades im quite sure

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

1.....If we are considering what absolutely is a rare card, then Tony G is on target.

2.....But, I have a different perspective on this subject. To determine rarity you have to take into
consideration "demand". How many collectors seek out Felin Franks and 55 Topps stamp issues ?


3.....When demand is factored into the equation, then cards such as the 1949 LEAF Satchell Paige
is one of the first cards that pop into my mind.




4.....This card was not only in the Short-Printed (SP) series of this set, its been proven that fewer
Leaf Paige cards were issued than the other 48 cards in this SP series.

5.....And, when one is lucky to find this rare card, it is usually less than Vg condition. So, we have
this added factor "condition" to consider when identifying a rare card.

Therefore, my candidate for one of the "rarest" post-war cards is this Paige card in Ex (or better)
condition.

TED Z

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Posted By: Red

On point #4, how has it been proven that there were less Paige cards made? Just curious, thanks.

Back on the subject of rare cards, has anybody ever seen a BAAS Cherry Cola card?

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

In 1981, I wrote an article in the Baseball Cards magazine (Krause Pub.) regarding the 1949 Bowman
Set. In my research, I contacted a senior employee at Leaf Confectionary of Chicago (the old Leaf
Gum Co.); and, I was told that due to the "Gum Wars" between Bowman and Leaf in 1949....several
players portrayed by these BB card companies had to be withdrawn from their respective sets.
And, the Leaf Paige was one of them.

In 1989 this was reinforced by Alan Rosen's great find of four unopened, 24-count, boxes of Leaf 2nd
Series (SP) cards. Of the 96 wax packs (yielding 576 cards) there were only 3 cards of Paige.

While the remaining 48 cards in this series had a normal distribution of 10-12 cards each.

Red....I hope this answers your question.

TED Z

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Posted By: Paul

I have no reason to doubt that the Paige is much tougher than the other Leaf SPs. But I'm not sure that early withdrawal is the explanation. The box Alan Rosen found had 3 Paiges. That's a low number to be sure, but it's not zero. If the card was withdrawn early, I would expect a box to have either zero Paiges (post-withdrawal) or a number equal to the other players (pre-withdrawal). The only other possibility would be that Alan Rosen's box had the extraordinary historic significance of being created during the withdrawal process, with the first few packs in the box coming from before the withdrawal, and the majority coming from after the withdrawal. I suppose that's possible, but it seems unlikely.

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Posted By: Anthony N.

In Rosen's book, True Mint, he talks about the find of 4 boxes of Leaf's 2nd series. He opened 2 boxes and got no Paiges. He sold the other 2 boxes to Jim Copeland and he got 3 out of the remaining two boxes. 4 full boxes, 96 6-card packs, 1152 total cards of a 49 card set, and only 3 of Ol' Satch.
The first two boxes yielded 288 cards (according to the book) with 2-3 of each card (the math doesn't work out, so I'm assuming he means per box) and no Paige at all.
Ted and I have spoken about how some of the SP Leafs seem to be tougher than others, and Paige topped that list. Add in the demand for him and it's even tougher.

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Alan Rosen and I discussed the Leaf find back in the early 1990's and there were indeed 10-12 cards
of each of the 48 players in this series. His book states "2-3" and this is an error in the text.

But, please forgive me for correcting your math....."4 full boxes, 96 6-card packs, 1152 total cards".
This total is actually 576 cards.....which is also the product of 48 players x 12 cards each.

Quite a few in this hobby are very critical of Alan Rosen; however, he has ventured out and attained
some great FINDS. And, finds like this Leaf 2nd series one, and especially his 1952 Topps Hi# find and
his 1500 card Tobacco find (including 750 mint T206's) have provided us with an enormous amount of
added knowledge regarding these sets.

TED Z

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Posted By: Anthony N.

Ted, of course you're right- I doubled the same number twice.
I'll agree about Rosen as well- he brought a lot of stuff out of closets and attics, brought a lot of positive publicity to the hobby, and gave us some great stories to relive. I've enjoyed both of his books and learned a lot. I hope he's had a full recovery from his cardiac issues.

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Posted By: Mike

Supply and Demand must be factored into the equation always. Wagner is in much greater supply then many other cards but the demand is always there !When I was into collecting complete sets I always had trouble with the 1963 Fleer Checklist and Adcock card. Also as stated before the 1954 Bowman Williams was on my list as well as the Mantle 1952 Topps card which I turned down several times when it was in the $ 500 range ( too expensive )!Ouch ! I also remember Mantle signing for $ 5 each at a Plymouth , Michigan show. Wish I would have bought a few more.

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Posted By: Bob Lemke

As evidenced by the picture on Page 39 of the 2008 Standard Catalog, there exists at least one Baas card: Johnny Sain. I took the photo of the card, but very nearly lost it when my camera's motorwind tore the film off the spool and it had to be put into a canister in a bathroom that wasn't completely light-tight.

The owner of that Sain card, by the way, always inquired when I sent him his annual contributor's copy of the big book, if any other Baas examples had surfaced.

The checklist, if I recall correctly, same from the old "Bible."