Mike,
Like all good questions, there is no simple answer. Since you made reference to my book and my explanation of ribbons and "dangles" on pinbacks I won't begin at square one.
First, I know the pins on eBay that you are referring to that are vintage pins that have been "loaded" with modern ribbons and dangles to enhance their visual appeal. By logical extension, we tend to be willing to part with more money for something that both is nice and "looks" nice. In my opinion adding modern day ribbons and such to old pinbacks is to alter their integrity. I never do it.
Second, over the many years (now over 50) I have been collecting pinbacks I have assempbled a small stash of old ribbons and dangles that somehow got removed from pinbacks to which they were once attached. If I acquire an old pinback that has a remnant of a ribbon, I will sometimes replace the torn ribbon with a vintage ribbon of the same era. I would estimate I have done this on no more than 20-30 pins out of the thousands I own. I have done it more with football pins than any other sport. Not sure why ribbons on football pins tend to be more tattered, but that has been my experience. For the most part, however, I retain the pinbacks as I found them. If a collector is going to add a ribbon or dangle to enhance visual appeal, then I would insist (from an integrity standpoint) the ribbon be of the same vintage as the pin. Finding ribbons from the 1896-1910 era is extremely difficult.
Third, as I say in my book, ribbons that have printing on them should NEVER be removed, no matter how badly they are tattered. World Series pinbacks sometimes have printing on them. They greatly add to the value of the pinback, as well as help validate the reason for its production.
However, I don't think I have directly answered your question, that being, are pinback buttons worth more with a ribbon or dangle than without. My answer is a clear "no." The ribbons/dangles were not necessarily made by the pinmaker, but were added by a vendor (vendors called the ribbons and dangles "set-ups") before selling the pinback to a customer (as at a ball game). It is true that back in the 1950s a customer could buy a player pin, for example, with no ribbon for 25 cents. The same pin with a RWB ribbon would cost 30 cents. The same pin with a ribbon and small bat might sell for 40 cents. And a "fully loaded" version, perhaps with two or more layered ribbons and a rabbit's foot would be 50 cents. One of my earliest memories of Yankee Stadium in 1958 was to see a vendor with a board full of pinbacks with the ribbons flapping in the breeze. They were an attention getter---it worked.
If you want to argue that a pinback without a ribbon that sold for 25 cents in 1958 is worth today half of what the same pin loaded with ribbons that originally sold for 50 cents, the math works, but that form of "value" resides only in the mind of a particular collector. If it were that easy to double the value of a pinback collection, the hunt would be on not for vintage pinbacks, but for vintage ribbons and dangles. If you reject the "double value" argument as being extreme, but adopt a more temperate position of "some" increase in value, then the argument is how much is "some." If the amount of "some" is greater than zero, it can't (or shouldn't be) more than a few percentage points, if that.
Finally Mike, you mentioned Hake's book. There is something most unusual about the pinbacks featured in that classic book (that cuts to the value of ribbons and dangles). It always was extremely curious to me why not ONE pinback in his book had a ribbon or dangle. Over the years I became good friends with Ted and had the opportinity to acquire many of his sports pinbacks. He told me he removed all the ribbons and dangles from the pins he photographed because they added no value to the pin and took up precious space in each page's layout. I elected to photograph my pinbacks with the ribbons and dangles for my book, but frankly I wonder how many fewer pages (and less cost) my book would have been if I had been more judicious in using space. After photographing the pinbacks, he added the ribbons back on the pinbacks (if they came with one) and sold them in his auctions and sales.
Hope this helps.
Paul
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01-16-2012, 04:21 PM
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