NonSports Forum

Net54baseball.com
Welcome to Net54baseball.com. These forums are devoted to both Pre- and Post- war baseball cards and vintage memorabilia, as well as other sports. There is a separate section for Buying, Selling and Trading - the B/S/T area!! If you write anything concerning a person or company your full name needs to be in your post or obtainable from it. . Contact the moderator at leon@net54baseball.com should you have any questions or concerns. When you click on links to eBay on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network. Enjoy!
Net54baseball.com
Net54baseball.com
ebay GSB
T206s on eBay
Babe Ruth Cards on eBay
t206 Ty Cobb on eBay
Ty Cobb Cards on eBay
Lou Gehrig Cards on eBay
Baseball T201-T217 on eBay
Baseball E90-E107 on eBay
T205 Cards on eBay
Baseball Postcards on eBay
Goudey Cards on eBay
Baseball Memorabilia on eBay
Baseball Exhibit Cards on eBay
Baseball Strip Cards on eBay
Baseball Baking Cards on eBay
Sporting News Cards on eBay
Play Ball Cards on eBay
Joe DiMaggio Cards on eBay
Mickey Mantle Cards on eBay
Bowman 1951-1955 on eBay
Football Cards on eBay

Go Back   Net54baseball.com Forums > Net54baseball Main Forum - WWII & Older Baseball Cards > Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 10-15-2012, 01:54 PM
atx840's Avatar
atx840 atx840 is offline
Chris Browne
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Calgary
Posts: 3,741
Default Looks blue to me

Figured we could use one more thread on this card. Thanks to Josh at H&S for getting the scans.

__________________
T206 gallery

Last edited by atx840; 10-15-2012 at 02:15 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 10-15-2012, 02:15 PM
g_vezina_c55's Avatar
g_vezina_c55 g_vezina_c55 is offline
nels0n aud.et
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,731
Default

Nice scan.

The back is absolutely blue
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10-15-2012, 02:52 PM
Al C.risafulli's Avatar
Al C.risafulli Al C.risafulli is offline
Al
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Kingston, NY
Posts: 894
Default

Boy, that's beautiful.

-Al
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 10-15-2012, 02:56 PM
obcmac obcmac is offline
Mac Wubben
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Washington DC
Posts: 606
Default

I am curious as to what people think of this...this card (from ebay)...has the exact same idiosyncratic wear...broken upper right border (can't recall seeing much of that on t206's...but I haven't really looked for it either)...also the spot of Red on the uniform. I don't know what I think now ;-)

Mac
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Desktopwalsh.jpg (42.4 KB, 477 views)
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 10-15-2012, 02:59 PM
obcmac obcmac is offline
Mac Wubben
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Washington DC
Posts: 606
Default

Forgot to mention...back is a piedmont...factory 25. Maybe they printed the old mill backs after the piedmonts (that is nothing but wild speculation) ;-)

Mac
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10-15-2012, 03:02 PM
scooter729's Avatar
scooter729 scooter729 is offline
Scott S
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Boston area
Posts: 2,663
Default

I can't chime in about blue or not, but with the hi-res scan, the card definitely looks a bit overgraded as a 30 with its creases and heavy wear. That's obviously not the deciding factor in anyone purchasing this card or not, but I've seen nicer looking 20's than this 30.

Last edited by scooter729; 10-15-2012 at 03:03 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 10-15-2012, 03:03 PM
ullmandds's Avatar
ullmandds ullmandds is offline
pete ullman
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: saint paul, mn
Posts: 11,362
Default

what's up with the dots in the C-H-I-C-A-G-O lettering. i'm not sure if I've ever seen this before on this card?

NEVER MIND!!!!!

Last edited by ullmandds; 10-15-2012 at 03:14 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10-15-2012, 05:13 PM
E93's Avatar
E93 E93 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 2,202
Default

Looks good to me in the scan, just like it did in person under a lighted loupe. Is it possible to line it up with a black Old Mill like in the other thread. It would be more meaningful now with a good scan.
JimB
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 10-15-2012, 05:15 PM
E93's Avatar
E93 E93 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 2,202
Default

That is not the same card imho. On a quick glance of the upper left corner it is clear.
JimB

Quote:
Originally Posted by obcmac View Post
I am curious as to what people think of this...this card (from ebay)...has the exact same idiosyncratic wear...broken upper right border (can't recall seeing much of that on t206's...but I haven't really looked for it either)...also the spot of Red on the uniform. I don't know what I think now ;-)

Mac
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 10-15-2012, 06:17 PM
drumback drumback is offline
Mark Peavey
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Wichita, KS
Posts: 927
Default Walsh

Very interesting. None of the other Walsh cards on eBay have the red dot or the break in the upper right border. Also, see the white dot above the back of his head? It is on both the blue back card and the one posted by Mac, but none of the others.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 10-15-2012, 06:35 PM
Pup6913
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Does anyone here own that Walsh or have a tag on it in the psa registry?
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 10-15-2012, 06:56 PM
Leon's Avatar
Leon Leon is offline
Leon
peasant/forum owner
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: near Dallas
Posts: 35,034
Default

What an intriguing card!! I have gone back and forth on it, myself. Sometimes I like it, other times not quite as much. Right now, that scan in this thread has me liking it again. It reminds me a little bit of the AWA Caramel E222's. Before the 2nd and 3rd ones became known it was thought that it could have been an anomaly. Now, it's a legitimatized type. If I were a T206 back collector (which I am, but not hard core) then I think at some level I would want to own this card. Maybe 15k-20k wouldn't be a bad risk? Personally, I like owning unique things. And then too, if another is found, what does that do to the value? (I don't think it goes down at all, quite the contrary)
__________________
Leon Luckey
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 10-15-2012, 07:11 PM
x2drich2000 x2drich2000 is offline
(DJ) Rich.ard.s
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 2,232
Default

I agree with Jim, the blue back and PSA 3.5 are not the same card. Notice the centering, to me, the blue back has a larger left border. Also, these two cards are not unique to having the missing border and red dot. Here is auction for another Walsh missing the border and with the dot.

http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/1276508

DJ
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 10-15-2012, 07:47 PM
atx840's Avatar
atx840 atx840 is offline
Chris Browne
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Calgary
Posts: 3,741
Default

+1 Leon, I was quite impressed when I saw the scan.....oddities and backs are my thing, too bad the price tag is WAY out of my reach

I'm fairly certain the intent was to show that the missing border and dot are not anomalies (like the blue back) and likely just an issue with a plate..which these examples might have all been printed from.

There are several with the flaw. Someone pointed these other examples out.

http://sports.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=47011&lotNo=12098
http://sports.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=151126&lotNo=41036
http://www.legendaryauctions.com/LotDetail.aspx?inventoryid=73305

Found this example in the original thread, posted by Scott Stiffler

__________________
T206 gallery

Last edited by atx840; 10-15-2012 at 11:06 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 10-15-2012, 07:47 PM
drumback drumback is offline
Mark Peavey
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Wichita, KS
Posts: 927
Default T206 Walsh

No, I don't think they are the same card either, but they share common flaws that seem unlikely. Both have the a white spot, as mentioned before, above the back of the head. Noted, one is larger than the other. Also, both have a white mark just a bit above his shoulder near the right border. None of the other Chesbros on eBay currently have these flaws. Also, there is a small mark extending down at the middle of the bottom border. Probably just printing flaws that may exist on other samples, but it's interesting that none of the others on eBay have these flaws.

Is it possible the one was used as a template to create the blue back card? Doesn't seem likely, but if it was, the fakers have reached a level of sophistication that will fool veteran collectors. That's a scary thought.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 10-15-2012, 08:25 PM
x2drich2000 x2drich2000 is offline
(DJ) Rich.ard.s
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 2,232
Default

Interesting Chris that the three cards you brought up and the 1 I did that all have the missing border and red dot are all from the 350 series and factory 25. Also, the blue Old Mill is factory 25. Would the Old Mill back be from this same series?

DJ
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 10-15-2012, 08:31 PM
teetwoohsix's Avatar
teetwoohsix teetwoohsix is offline
Clayton
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Las Vegas,Nevada
Posts: 2,461
Default

It's no doubt blue, but that's the problem. The reprints were that color blue.

Anything I say beyond that will only come across as me bashing the card, so-I have a question for anyone who cares to answer- if this card were posted in a thread, and someone said "look what I found in my collection"- without knowing anything else about the card, and, it was raw and ungraded-honestly- how many people would be calling this a reprint? Or, a "Frankenstein"? My guess was 97% of the board, give or take.....

Sincerely, Clayton

Last edited by teetwoohsix; 10-15-2012 at 08:34 PM. Reason: spelllling
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 10-15-2012, 08:53 PM
Jlighter Jlighter is offline
Jake
Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Florida or VA
Posts: 1,010
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by teetwoohsix View Post
It's no doubt blue, but that's the problem. The reprints were that color blue.

Anything I say beyond that will only come across as me bashing the card, so-I have a question for anyone who cares to answer- if this card were posted in a thread, and someone said "look what I found in my collection"- without knowing anything else about the card, and, it was raw and ungraded-honestly- how many people would be calling this a reprint? Or, a "Frankenstein"? My guess was 97% of the board, give or take.....

Sincerely, Clayton
When this card was first introduced in a post ungraded many people said it was a reprint, then I'm sure surprised after seeing it was graded by SGC
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 10-15-2012, 10:33 PM
E93's Avatar
E93 E93 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 2,202
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by teetwoohsix View Post
-I have a question for anyone who cares to answer- if this card were posted in a thread, and someone said "look what I found in my collection"- without knowing anything else about the card, and, it was raw and ungraded-honestly- how many people would be calling this a reprint? Or, a "Frankenstein"? My guess was 97% of the board, give or take.....

Sincerely, Clayton

IMHO that is more a comment on the nature/tone this board has developed than anything to do with the card.

Not only has SGC authenticated it with full awareness of the risks and implications of doing so, but so has virtually every T206 expert who has seen and held the card.
JimB
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 10-15-2012, 11:14 PM
teetwoohsix's Avatar
teetwoohsix teetwoohsix is offline
Clayton
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Las Vegas,Nevada
Posts: 2,461
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by E93 View Post
IMHO that is more a comment on the nature/tone this board has developed than anything to do with the card.

Not only has SGC authenticated it with full awareness of the risks and implications of doing so, but so has virtually every T206 expert who has seen and held the card.
JimB
True, you are right.

Good luck to the bidders !!!!!!

Sincerely, Clayton

Last edited by teetwoohsix; 10-16-2012 at 02:38 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 10-16-2012, 08:26 AM
Bpm0014's Avatar
Bpm0014 Bpm0014 is offline
Brendan Mullen
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Pittsburgh PA
Posts: 2,903
Default

Maybe we can get the "Cincinnati Wagner" duo/clowns to get their "expert" to do a paper analysis on this one too...
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 10-16-2012, 09:18 AM
Leon's Avatar
Leon Leon is offline
Leon
peasant/forum owner
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: near Dallas
Posts: 35,034
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bpm0014 View Post
Maybe we can get the "Cincinnati Wagner" duo/clowns to get their "expert" to do a paper analysis on this one too...
They did paper tests on the back of the blue-eyed Wagner. That paper was legitimate. The front, well, they forgot to test that part (from what I remember).
__________________
Leon Luckey

Last edited by Leon; 10-16-2012 at 09:21 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 10-16-2012, 09:26 AM
Bpm0014's Avatar
Bpm0014 Bpm0014 is offline
Brendan Mullen
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Pittsburgh PA
Posts: 2,903
Default

Haha!! I was being sarcastic. but I do beleive the Walsh to be genuine FWIW...
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 10-16-2012, 11:45 AM
Exhibitman's Avatar
Exhibitman Exhibitman is offline
Ad@m W@r$h@w
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Beautiful Downtown Burbank
Posts: 13,534
Default

Interesting view re the desirability of the card from an investment standpoint, Leon.

The collective expertise of the people here who actually saw the card raw at the National is something I would trust infinitely more than any opinion from a scan. I don't care if every member here who hasn't actually seen the card thinks it is fake, they don't have the foundation to make that claim. To paraphrase John Nance Garner, an authenticity opinion from a scan is not worth a bucket of warm piss.

If the thing is a fake then it has fooled some of the most experienced collectors around and it is time to sell off all of my cards and do something else for fun because the world just became truly scary. I think it far more likely that a sheet got run with some blue ink in the tray.
__________________
Read my blog; it will make all your dreams come true.

https://adamstevenwarshaw.substack.com/

Or not...
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 10-16-2012, 12:18 PM
Orioles1954 Orioles1954 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 2,267
Default

I wrote the description for the Blue Old Mill Walsh last night and it was a pleasure spending an hour or so with it.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 10-16-2012, 12:19 PM
ullmandds's Avatar
ullmandds ullmandds is offline
pete ullman
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: saint paul, mn
Posts: 11,362
Default

Did it tell you any interesting stories?
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 10-16-2012, 12:23 PM
Orioles1954 Orioles1954 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 2,267
Default

"If walls could talk"....
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 10-16-2012, 12:24 PM
Matthew H Matthew H is offline
Matt Hall
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 1,817
Default

It does look about 100x better in the scan.
Reply With Quote
Reply



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Blue Old Mill T206 Walsh at Chantilly Show - My Opinion Has Changed t206blogcom Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 60 10-15-2012 11:12 PM
Sold jabiloxi 1920 to 1949 Baseball cards- B/S/T 1 01-08-2010 06:32 PM
Rare 1987 Toronto Blue Jays Signed Print Set / Team Provenance Archive Baseball Memorabilia B/S/T 1 10-14-2008 04:49 PM
Philadelphia Blue Jays Archive Net54baseball Sports (Primarily) Vintage Memorabilia Forum incl. Game Used 10 06-05-2008 10:32 PM
Kid Elberfeld scans....Blue Eyes Archive Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 4 07-01-2006 09:08 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:30 PM.


ebay GSB