The Actual Top 20 Lifetime HR Leaders (OT)

Runscott · #1 07-07-2014, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glynparson

I always find this funny cheating has was and always will be a part of professional sports. If just popping a pill made one an all star why are so many also rans and bench warmers getting caught. Non of this bothers me as much as acting like guys competing against just a segment of the population makes them some how superior.

There was a really good SI article a few years ago, that related to this. Steroids didn't turn everyone into all stars, but it made a lot of players perform better - players who shouldn't have made the majors barely made it, keeping non-cheaters in the minors, which is what the article was about. Few were noticing the huge improvement of such players, because they ended up being lower-tier major leaguers;instead, everyone focused on good players who all of a sudden found unreal batting power.

Runscott · #2 07-07-2014, 10:54 PM

Also, you can get a hint of PED use by looking at 'before and after' photos of guys like Len Dykstra, Barry Bonds or Sammy Sosa. I don't remember Griffey going through such a transition.

itjclarke · #3 07-07-2014, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Runscott

There was a really good SI article a few years ago, that related to this. Steroids didn't turn everyone into all stars, but it made a lot of players perform better - players who shouldn't have made the majors barely made it, keeping non-cheaters in the minors, which is what the article was about. Few were noticing the huge improvement of such players, because they ended up being lower-tier major leaguers;instead, everyone focused on good players who all of a sudden found unreal batting power.

Scott- I've referred to this article about 3-4 times in other related threads, I'm glad someone else has read it. Don't want to retype the same words over and over, but the general stance I've had for years is that steroids have had a far more negative affect on marginal/fringe players than on stars and fans. Fans/media focus on stars because sacred records are being threatened, but I think many hundreds, if not thousands of fringe players' (and families) lives were greatly and negatively influenced by the widespread use of steriods in the minors/MLB... which I see as a result of Selig and Co's totally lax attitude toward the issue, while they were reaping benefits from the epic HR chase, etc.

You had the 20-40 men on man 40 rosters debating whether to use or not for sake of getting or keeping a job. This was made worse by knowledge that "the guy taking your job" is probably using. You also had guys like the author of that article, who never used but never made a big league roster. While he toiled in the minors, he saw many other marginal talents (guys originally throwing 85, but who'd added 10-12 MPH on their fastball in a single off season) blow right by him

There may be a lot of inflated stats/records up at the top of the steroid era's food chain.. and I agree, that really sucks.. but I think the fact that many many more guys at the lower end of the baseball food chain were robbed of their big league dream, and subsequent paychecks bothers me more.

Runscott · #4 07-08-2014, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by itjclarke

Scott- I've referred to this article about 3-4 times in other related threads, I'm glad someone else has read it.

I don't subscribe to SI, but always read it when I'm at the doctor or dentist. I read most of it before I went in, then went back out and read the remainder. It was really eye-opening.

Regarding guys like Piazza - my guess is that the HOF voters know more than most of us do, regarding PED use. I think that if a deserving guy was clean, he'll get in. And PLEASE don't accuse me of having too positive of an outlook on human nature.

GregMitch34 · #5 07-08-2014, 10:34 AM

Maris's 61 partly explained by expansion teams that year--see other AL dingers that year......and Norm Cash hit .360 or something....

Tabe · #6 07-08-2014, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GregMitch34

Maris's 61 partly explained by expansion teams that year--see other AL dingers that year......and Norm Cash hit .360 or something....

Cash admitted using a corked bat that season - and detailed his process for corking the bat in a Sports Illustrated article.

packs · #7 07-08-2014, 04:50 PM

In my opinion you can't take anything away from Maris' 1961 season. 26 years old. Coming off an MVP season. Dealing with everything that came with eclipsing Babe Ruth.

After Mantle the next closest guy to him hit 46. It was an incredible year for him.

sniffy5 · #8 07-08-2014, 06:10 PM

The entire situation is very sad. I just don't watch the game with the same enjoyment anymore. I'm a huge Yankee fan, and we come to find out that many players from those championship Yankee years were cheating. And a guy like Pettitte gets a pass because he apologized and admitted it. But he only admitted it after the Mitchell Report cited him. He never would have admitted it otherwise. The report came years after his initial use. Where's the integrity in that?
And many of the PED apologists point to previous generations taking greenies, etc.. But it's not the same thing. For starters, the PED users also are probably taking speed day game after night game. Speculation of course, but I'm certain if players are willing to pay for platelet-spinning treatments, they'd also be willing to pop a speed pill here and there. And where us the line drawn to begin with? What about the pain-killer injection Gibson got when he hit the shot off of Eck? Was that a performance enhancer? Well, the answer is no. Greenies and cortisone don't make marginal players into stars. They don't add 40 lbs of muscle. But what makes me most disturbed with the entire subject is this notion the certain players are clean and free of suspicion. Jeter for instance. Every fan "knows" he never took a single PED. Everyone else in the league, who knows? But not Jeter. But how do we know that? And what's more, how could we know that?. I'm not certain he did, but I don't understand why certain players get the pass. Hell, SF fans annoyed the baseball world with their absolute absolution of Bonds. And Larussa swore none of his Oakland players ever took steroids. Then Canseco wrote the book, and Larussa then admitted Canseco did but again swore McGwire didn't. He could not get his bold faced lies straight. McGwire does his pitiful congress thing, and next thing you know St Louis wins the World Series with McGwire as batting coach. All lies forgiven and forgotten. That what kills me.

Peter_Spaeth · #9 07-08-2014, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GregMitch34

Maris's 61 partly explained by expansion teams that year--see other AL dingers that year......and Norm Cash hit .360 or something....

Any NL batting records set when the Mets and Colts were added? This seems an unlikely explanation to me. I think he just had a career year, and it didn't hurt that it was impossible to pitch around him.

refz · #10 07-09-2014, 11:01 AM

Seeing how griffey is zeroed in on this thread, was frank thomas ever suspected? He also did alot of damage in the 90s. Just wondering.

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Switch to Linear Mode Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Anyone seen the actual photo used for Bender's T-3?	jerseygary	Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions	0	06-23-2014 12:47 PM
My lifetime collection for sale	ocjack	1950 to 1959 Baseball cards- B/S/T	1	05-07-2013 08:21 AM
My lifetime collection for sale	ocjack	Pre-WWII cards (E, D, M, etc..) B/S/T	1	05-07-2013 08:21 AM
Actual Set History	Archive	Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions	4	05-28-2006 02:48 PM
Actual worth vs want	Archive	Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions	2	04-18-2005 07:29 AM