Winston and JSA

[earlywynnfan]

I can totally see both sides of the "pay college athletes" arguments. What I cannot get out of my head is that college FB player last year who was on the cover of the Madden video game, yet couldn't afford to buy the game. There is NO WAY you can convince me that something isn't wrong there.

Ken

[chaddurbin]

i was under the impression big time college programs i.e. SEC schools already pay their football players <wink><wink>.

to the original point i see nothing wrong with what JSA is doing. people want them to turn down business? they exist to give opinions on autographs, nothing more. if anything it's on the stupid autograph dealer who needed to submit 1000 winston autos at the same time. they probably have proof shots of winston signing also, no way jsa would cert that many w/o any proof.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by chaddurbin

i was under the impression big time college programs i.e. SEC schools already pay their football players <wink><wink>.

to the original point i see nothing wrong with what JSA is doing. people want them to turn down business? they exist to give opinions on autographs, nothing more. if anything it's on the stupid autograph dealer who needed to submit 1000 winston autos at the same time. they probably have proof shots of winston signing also, no way jsa would cert that many w/o any proof.

Really, you think the only problem is that the autograph dealer was stupid enough to get caught?!? And you think that it was okay for JSA to cert them, knowing that they were potentially helping a second college player get screwed? simply because they had proof that Winston signed, so that let them off the hook?

It's hard to give an example of anything comparable, because I don't think anything exists.

You have a college player who cannot legally sell his autograph, or sign for someone who will sell them for profit. But it happened, meaning the player will be in deep shit if he gets caught. Then those items are sent by a dealer to a TPA, both of who are dead certain that the college player has done something illegal. But neither are responsible in any way. And please don't tell me that JSA didn't know - think 'Gurley'.

[chaddurbin]

JSA did what they were supposed to do, certify autographs. they're not MOM against drunk drivings or DADs against animal cruelty. it's win win for JSA...they get some easy money with added examplars to their college winston signatures.

and how will winston be "screwed"? there were videos of manziel doing the signing and NCAA did nothing, and gurley stock draft will probably be enhanced because he won't be further abused this year. will this make winston look worse after the (2) rape allegations and the crab legs fiasco to NFL people? if you can play, the league will open their arms...be damned if you're an abuser of women, drug abuser, or murderer.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by chaddurbin

JSA did what they were supposed to do, certify autographs. they're not MOM against drunk drivings or DADs against animal cruelty. it's win win for JSA...they get some easy money with added examplars to their college winston signatures.

I agree - it would be a 'win/win' if everyone thought like you do. But they don't. ESPN and others were not exactly using JSA's name with reverence. As far as "a few exemplars", I think 900 on two different item types, is sort of overkill. This is a matter of ethics. I understand that a lot of people feel like no one in society has any culpability for anything they do, as long as it is not technically illegal. Mo money, mo money, mo money. That's all that counts.

Originally Posted by chaddurbin

and how will winston be "screwed"? there were videos of manziel doing the signing and NCAA did nothing, and gurley stock draft will probably be enhanced because he won't be further abused this year. will this make winston look worse after the (2) rape allegations and the crab legs fiasco to NFL people? if you can play, the league will open their arms...be damned if you're an abuser of women, drug abuser, or murderer.

You haven't been watching sports talk recently? I consider Florida State washing their hands of him, as him being "screwed", and that's what some are demanding. He's already proven that he's even dumber than Manziel, and Manziel's autograph signings certainly contributed to his draft stock dropping (that means less $$$$, and I would say "being screwed" somewhat).

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by Runscott

I agree - it would be a 'win/win' if everyone thought like you do. But they don't. ESPN and others were not exactly using JSA's name with reverence. As far as "a few exemplars", I think 900 on two different item types, is sort of overkill. This is a matter of ethics. I understand that a lot of people feel like no one in society has any culpability for anything they do, as long as it is not technically illegal. Mo money, mo money, mo money. That's all that counts.



You haven't been watching sports talk recently? I consider Florida State washing their hands of him, as him being "screwed", and that's what some are demanding. He's already proven that he's even dumber than Manziel, and Manziel's autograph signings certainly contributed to his draft stock dropping (that means less $$$$, and I would say "being screwed" somewhat).

As a big FSU fan, I am sick and tired of Winston's B.S. I don't think he gives a damn about the fans, his team mates, or the University. And once again, this crap is happening right before another huge game, with FSU already looking very vulnerable this year....What a moron...

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

As a big FSU fan, I am sick and tired of Winston's B.S. I don't think he gives a damn about the fans, his team mates, or the University. And once again, this crap is happening right before another huge game, with FSU already looking very vulnerable this year....What a moron...

Kevin, I think he cares about all of that stuff. But he is still very immature, and wasn't blessed with very much brains. He needs a mentor - sort of like Tyson with Cus D'Amato. Otherwise he's going to need a lot of luck making it to an NFL payday, and even more luck not blowing it and ending up on the streets.

[chaddurbin]

Originally Posted by Runscott

This is a matter of ethics. I understand that a lot of people feel like no one in society has any culpability for anything they do, as long as it is not technically illegal. Mo money, mo money, mo money. That's all that counts.

ethics? who's the arbiter of these ethics? the NCAA? the biggest outcry to come out of this debacle is why shouldn't athletes be able to profit from their own names...no one is siding with the NCAA and their outdated bylaws. and why should JSA have to adhere/answer to the NCAA?

You haven't been watching sports talk recently? I consider Florida State washing their hands of him, as him being "screwed", and that's what some are demanding. He's already proven that he's even dumber than Manziel, and Manziel's autograph signings certainly contributed to his draft stock dropping (that means less $$$$, and I would say "being screwed" somewhat).

manziel stock didn't drop, no one rated him as a 1st round talent and many considered it a reach when clev drafted him. if winston's stock tumble, it'll be because his measurables won't be that impressive and of course because of all the stuff he did that broke the law...not because he signed his name a couple thousand times for an autograph dealer.

...and i'm probably the biggest fsu/jameis winston hater on the west coast.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by chaddurbin

ethics? who's the arbiter of these ethics? the NCAA? the biggest outcry to come out of this debacle is why shouldn't athletes be able to profit from their own names...no one is siding with the NCAA and their outdated bylaws. and why should JSA have to adhere/answer to the NCAA?

No one is the arbiter - it's a personal thing, and it's obvious where you stand. You are;however, building a straw man from this. The discussion wasn't about JSA's feelings about outdated NCAA rules - it was about the effect of his actions on a college football player who is under those rules. JSA gets off scot-free regardless.

Originally Posted by chaddurbin

manziel stock didn't drop, no one rated him as a 1st round talent and many considered it a reach when clev drafted him. if winston's stock tumble, it'll be because his measurables won't be that impressive and of course because of all the stuff he did that broke the law...not because he signed his name a couple thousand times for an autograph dealer.

...and i'm probably the biggest fsu/jameis winston hater on the west coast.

I think you have your head in the sand regarding Manziel. His stock most certainly dropped. Yes, before his problems he was certainly rated as a 1st round talent. And you certainly are wrong about Winston - anyone who follows the NFL knows that off-the-field behavior IS important for college players. Bad behavior indicates ability to lead a team and make correct decisions once he's a member of an NFL team. It also affects team image. This isn't a matter of opinion - there are plenty of historic examples.

I think you are arguing just to be arguing, as Manziel's fall is common knowledge - as his immaturity became more and more evident, his NFL stock dropped. But you already know this