Why our autograph experts are often silent

Runscott · #1 02-04-2015, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by perezfan

Just to play "devil's advocate"....

I think it's likely authentic. Looks almost identical to the Ruth signature on a 1926 Yankees Team Ball I once had and consigned to Leland's.

Then show it, or any that look like this. If it's real, it's real, but I have never seen a Ruth signature that looks like this and would need an example to convince me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by perezfan

Also....

* Ted K. (pugskiddo) is a former major leaguer, and a trusted ebay seller for many many years. Definitely not one of ebay's sleezebag dealers, or a "fly by night" guy.

Also, it's great that he's not a sleezebag dealer, but being a former major leaguer doesn't add credibility to his autograph authentication abilities.

perezfan · #2 02-04-2015, 10:14 PM

The listing/image no longer resides on Leland's site. Guess it's too early a listing. The ball was part of a trade to Brock L. and then later I believe was sold to Paul (Shoeless Moe), both Forum members here. I could be mistaken on the latter. Perhaps one of them still has an image, and can post a picture of the 1926 Yankees Ball.

Also of note.... the shellac appears vintage and of the era, and the Ruth signature is underneath the shellac. So if it's a forgery, it is an extremely early one. I still say it's real, and authenticated by Keating.

Runscott · #3 02-04-2015, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by perezfan

The listing/image no longer resides on Leland's site. Guess it's too early a listing. The ball was part of a trade to Brock L. and then later I believe was sold to Paul (Shoeless Moe), both Forum members here. I could be mistaken on the latter. Perhaps one of them still has an image, and can post a picture of the 1926 Yankees Ball.

Also of note.... the shellac appears vintage and of the era, and the Ruth signature is underneath the shellac. So if it's a forgery, it is an extremely early one. I still say it's real, and authenticated by Keating.

If it's real, there should be others out there that look like it - I haven't seen any.

The shellac thing is unconvincing - I've seen plenty of Ruth forgeries beneath similar-looking shellac, with the predictable chips.

I don't believe it's real, but have no problem changing my mind if someone can convince me. Nothing so far.

perezfan · #4 02-04-2015, 10:24 PM

Also, it's great that he's not a sleezebag dealer, but being a former major leaguer doesn't add credibility to his autograph authentication abilities.[/QUOTE]

The fact that he's a former major leaguer is a side-note, and has no bearing on his authentic skills.... that's correct. I included that info in response to labeling him one of "these ebay creeps". He has been a reputable seller for many years (perhaps since ebay's inception), and I know many people on this forum have successfully bought/sold/traded with Ted over the years.

Runscott · #5 02-04-2015, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by perezfan

The fact that he's a former major leaguer is a side-note, and has no bearing on his authentic skills.... that's correct. I included that info in response to labeling him one of "these ebay creeps". He has been a reputable seller for many years (perhaps since ebay's inception), and I know many people on this forum have successfully bought/sold/traded with Ted over the years.

I heard you. Just to make sure you understand that I heard you: he's a reputable seller, has been around a long time, and has had many great deals with people you know. I get it - he's not a creep. That doesn't mean he can't sell a forgery.

perezfan · #6 02-04-2015, 10:40 PM

Ok Scott... a healthy debate, and I respect your opinion. Debate/disagreement is a good thing on this forum.

That said.... where the hell is everyone else

Runscott · #7 02-04-2015, 10:53 PM

haha. Well, if you can sound more convincing, I know of three people who will jump in and say "it is real", simply because I said it isn't.

Also, you have to remember that the items that convince most Net54 members that a Ruth is real...are missing: PSA and JSA letters. That leaves them having to do their own thinking.

perezfan · #8 02-04-2015, 11:04 PM

OK here you go. A very similar example, authenticated by PSA...

http://bidami.com/Auctions/AuctionIt...d=35142&t=&p=0

perezfan · #9 02-04-2015, 11:15 PM

The 1926 Team Ball mentioned earlier is pictured about 3/4 of the way down on this link...

http://www.network54.com/Forum/56713...our+Collection

Of course there are subtle differences, as is always the case. I now have a migraine, and this used up all the available time I had tonight. So I will leave it to Scott and others to debate/nitpick/shoot down Keating/rip the seller/say that I'm an idiot/etc.

Runscott · #10 02-05-2015, 01:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by perezfan

The 1926 Team Ball mentioned earlier is pictured about 3/4 of the way down on this link...

http://www.network54.com/Forum/56713...our+Collection

Of course there are subtle differences, as is always the case. I now have a migraine, and this used up all the available time I had tonight. So I will leave it to Scott and others to debate/nitpick/shoot down Keating/rip the seller/say that I'm an idiot/etc.

Mark, I didn't have much time either - just read the bottom part of your post.

The differences aren't subtle and it isn't a matter of nitpicking. Sure, they are subtle to some, which his why forgeries sell. And I would never call you an idiot or rip Keating - I respect you and have no reason not to respect Keating. I don't think my initial post inferred in any way that I had issues with Keating - I didn't actually believe it had been authenticated by Keating. The seller is another matter.

I've said this so many times on this forum that it probably doesn't need to be repeated, but there is no need to put words or thoughts in my mouth - I pretty much say what I think.

Edited to add: (image of 3 sigs at very bottom, for comparison). Rather than prolong this, I'm just adding to this last post. I've been searching for examples similar to the ebay one, and can't find any. Also, I would really like to see a better view of the pic that shows 5 views of the 1926 ball and clearer, larger pics of the other example. The Ruth signatures on the two examples you provided have a couple of distinct oddities that I also can't find examples of in authentic Ruth signatures;however, also can't find the characteristics in any forgeries. Doesn't mean they are bad, only that I can't find examples. And while PSA and JSA 'good' opinions don't mean much to me, their rejections are worth considering.

Although I stand by my assertions regarding the ebay example, I wouldn't touch any Ruth-signed item that doesn't look good - I would rather miss out on an authentic oddball example of a signature than end up with a $3,500 (or more) forgery. I'm very curious about the other signatures on the 1926 example.

Here's my favorite - classic Ruth signature that leaves no doubts, and a perfect exemplar to compare possible purchase to:

Runscott · #11 02-04-2015, 11:26 PM

No offense Mark, but not even close - either of them. Your two examples definitely look similar to each other, but not to the ebay example in question.

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