Altered high grade E93s in Mile High?

[Peter_Spaeth]

I love when nonlawyers make pronouncements about the law. Is our resident class action expert Kevin Quinn still out there?

[Kenny Cole]

As a Plaintiff lawyer, I think it would be awesome if in a civil case the defendant had the burden of persuasion to disprove the plaintiff's allegations. That would make my job exponentially easier. On the criminal side, those pesky constitutional considerations cause me to grudgingly say that I guess the status quo should be maintained and that the prosecution has to still be able to prove its case beyond a reasonable doubt.

[ejharrington]

No one has addressed my original questions. I've seem enough scumbaggery within this hobby to not put it above somebody to drive down bidding with unfounded allegations. I have no dog in the fight and don't know anyone in the hobby. I find the timing of the post interesting; the auction has been open for weeks and the post occurs two days before it is due to end. Why wait if you have evidence or inside information? People have bid been tens of thousands of dollars on the cards that they may have not have bid on if this allegation was made earlier. Why does the title of the post have a ? at the end if he is sure? How could PSA miss a rebuilt corner on the Cobb? I think these are all legitimate questions.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by ejharrington

No one has addressed my original questions. I've seem enough scumbaggery within this hobby to not put it above somebody to drive down bidding with unfounded allegations. I have no dog in the fight and don't know anyone in the hobby. I find the timing of the post interesting; the auction has been open for weeks and the post occurs two days before it is due to end. Why wait if you have evidence or inside information? People have bid been tens of thousands of dollars on the cards that they may have not have bid on if this allegation was made earlier. Why does the title of the post have a ? at the end if he is sure? How could PSA miss a rebuilt corner on the Cobb? I think these are all legitimate questions.

Wait, I thought I was trying to keep the prices down with my first post and now you're saying that I could have kept them down even more by posting weeks ago? Where were you when I needed help?

PS -- I'm still refusing to put my full name on my posts and there's not a thing you can do to stop me.

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by calvindog

...I'm still refusing to put my full name on my posts and there's not a thing you can do to stop me.

I have found this aspect of the thread recurringly hilarious, all the way back to initial replies to your original post, Mr. Mystery Man. This is a very revealing look into the current state of reading comprehension.

Best regards,

Mr. Anonymous

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Eric72

I have found this aspect of the thread recurringly hilarious, all the way back to initial replies to your original post, Mr. Mystery Man. This is a very revealing look into the current state of reading comprehension.

Best regards,

Mr. Anonymous

To me, the thread is not funny at all but a very revealing look into the current state of apathy (or worse) about card doctoring. Lichtman presents compelling evidence that high 5 figure (I assume) cards have been altered and bumped by 3 or 4 grades, Dick Towle hawks his services using chemicals to take out stains (and I also pointed out that he takes out wrinkles), and most of the discussion here outside of people questioning if the E93s are really altered and an academic debate about water has been David trying essentially to defend what Towle does or at least part of what he does.


So it goes, I guess.

[CMIZ5290]

Peter- these cards are already at a figure that is incredible. This subject is something that collectors should know about....

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

Peter- these cards are already at a figure that is incredible. This subject is something that collectors should know about....

Kevin, nah, they look prettier than they did as 5s or 6s and that's all that counts -- oh, that and the holy flip.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

To me, the thread is not funny at all but a very revealing look into the current state of apathy (or worse) about card doctoring. Lichtman presents compelling evidence that high 5 figure (I assume) cards have been altered and bumped by 3 or 4 grades, Dick Towle hawks his services using chemicals to take out stains (and I also pointed out that he takes out wrinkles), and most of the discussion here outside of people questioning if the E93s are really altered and an academic debate about water has been David trying essentially to defend what Towle does or at least part of what he does.


So it goes, I guess.

Peter, the 'problem' is that this is a discussion forum, not a note-gathering space for a dissertation. I'm not being sarcastic - I would prefer that it were the latter;however, finding an internet discussion forum that equates to a discussion group built in real life (where you would eject undesirables or never invite them) is never going to happen.

And you can't get rid of most of the morons who infiltrate your discussions, because every post adds money to the forum - unless their participation results in other posters posting less, but that's a tough call for forum owners.

Also, if I were buying more than my fair share of rounds during our discussion group meeting at the local pub (which I can't do here on the internet), you would have no problem listening to my tripe. Thus, the 'ignore' feature.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Scott it's not an ideal format to be sure, and maybe a post about altered cards can't compete with one about Leon's auction or shipping charges or a fake T206 on ebay, but I still would have expected more outrage.