Buying all #332 Tony Bartirome 1952 Topps cards + his Gold Canary + Griffey + Tiger

[dollarscholar]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

not sure why you encouraging these over market sellers to keep prices over market..i guess these sellers are hoping everyone has a distant relative that was a major leaguer


the reason i thought you wouldnt pay 2-3 x over market price was this comment:

"I will pay you a small premium above actual market selling prices, but not 2-3x value"


As for the hobby in general..i dont think im alone in that i believe there will be decline overall in vintage cards in 10 years or so.....always a market for Ruth etc but not PSA 8 commons that are going for $600 etc...plus the ebb and flow of the economy ........for 1952s..until you show me that the top 30 set collectors have an average age under 50 i will hold my position that the demand will decline for the commons versus supply..

Not encouraging them. Watched Deans Cards offer a few #332's for months & I never caved in to their rip off prices. Apparently others did though. They are no longer available. I kept hounding them, trying to cut a deal, but they wouldn't do it.

Just depends on my expendable funds level. I really hold out on paying a big premium, but catch me on a good day like 707 just got the blessing of being on the receiving end of, & ok, good for them.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1952-Topps-3...-/111785024544

I offered the guy $250 & he said no less then $400! He referred to recent sales. I said THAT WAS ALL ME!!! He held strong. I said OK $275 that's IT!!!! I thought no way in hell any one was going to out offer me, but apparently he sold it for $360 & he thought he was "cutting the guy a deal because he was buying other cards from him". So I was disappointed I missed out on it, & was going to either call his bluff & he'd cave in a week for $275, or I'd come up to $300, but it didn't happen, & he got $360 for a PSA 5. Guess my purchase with 707 gave him that perception that it was worth $400. So yes, my purchases of #332 has impacted the market.

I believe out of the millions of new people on this planet every year, there are hundreds - or thousands? - of new collectors that want to be a part of the vintage baseball card days. I don't see demand dropping. There will be new generations that will want to collect vintage baseball card sets, the same way new generations will collect antique toys, dolls, guns, etc.

My hope is the set holders right now will leave their 1952 Topps sets to their children, & once inherited, they will cosign PWCC's & Probstein's kids to sell them, & I will continue to pick up the SET BREAK #332 cards decades from now!

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by dollarscholar

Not encouraging them. Watched Deans Cards offer a few #332's for months & I never caved in to their rip off prices. Apparently others did though. They are no longer available. I kept hounding them, trying to cut a deal, but they wouldn't do it.

Just depends on my expendable funds level. I really hold out on paying a big premium, but catch me on a good day like 707 just got the blessing of being on the receiving end of, & ok, good for them.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1952-Topps-3...-/111785024544

I offered the guy $250 & he said no less then $400! He referred to recent sales. I said THAT WAS ALL ME!!! He held strong. I said OK $275 that's IT!!!! I thought no way in hell any one was going to out offer me, but apparently he sold it for $360 & he thought he was "cutting the guy a deal because he was buying other cards from him". So I was disappointed I missed out on it, & was going to either call his bluff & he'd cave in a week for $275, or I'd come up to $300, but it didn't happen, & he got $360 for a PSA 5. Guess my purchase with 707 gave him that perception that it was worth $400. So yes, my purchases of #332 has impacted the market.

I believe out of the millions of new people on this planet every year, there are hundreds - or thousands? - of new collectors that want to be a part of the vintage baseball card days. I don't see demand dropping. There will be new generations that will want to collect vintage baseball card sets, the same way new generations will collect antique toys, dolls, guns, etc.

My hope is the set holders right now will leave their 1952 Topps sets to their children, & once inherited, they will cosign PWCC's & Probstein's kids to sell them, & I will continue to pick up the SET BREAK #332 cards decades from now!

You've impacted the market from dealers on your own past buys..but you cant say you really impacted teh market until you see real auctions take place...many members here dont even factor in buy it nows when looking at VCPs....and yes set breaks are what lower the prices for all cards....dealers cant command 2-3x market value if there are many people breaking up sets...even the non-patent collectors can wait a few weeks....when you dont see a card in the market for a while thats when the buy it nows do better...

[dollarscholar]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

You've impacted the market from dealers on your own past buys..but you cant say you really impacted teh market until you see real auctions take place...many members here dont even factor in buy it nows when looking at VCPs....and yes set breaks are what lower the prices for all cards....dealers cant command 2-3x market value if there are many people breaking up sets...even the non-patent collectors can wait a few weeks....when you dont see a card in the market for a while thats when the buy it nows do better...

Problem that I am now seeing, & direct proof that I am influencing the actual market, even in an auction style listing for a #332, are these 2 bidders going at it in a bidding war to win it - just to sell it to me:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/361402950360

myrondavis07 won it.
doug.41 was the runner up.

They both understand I pay extra for #332.

Both of them have been bidding against each other for multiple listings of #332 now. If I throw myself into the bidding mix, it creates quite the problem.

[cammb]

A fool and his money are soon parted. Dealers love guys like you.

[autograf]

The Hunt Brothers tried to corner the silver market unsuccessfully in the 1970's I believe.....Tony is still alive huh? Does he still sign through the mail?

[egri]

Originally Posted by autograf

Tony is still alive huh? Does he still sign through the mail?

SCF has a Bartirome success from last June. I know I saw several more on SCN in the late spring/early summer months, but I don't have a premium membership so I can't look those up.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by dollarscholar

Problem that I am now seeing, & direct proof that I am influencing the actual market, even in an auction style listing for a #332, are these 2 bidders going at it in a bidding war to win it - just to sell it to me:

ebay.com/itm/1952-TOPPS-332-TONY-BARTIROME-VGEX-/361402950360

myrondavis07 won it.
doug.41 was the runner up.

They both understand I pay extra for #332.

Both of them have been bidding against each other for multiple listings of #332 now. If I throw myself into the bidding mix, it creates quite the problem.

the link doesnt show but one auction isnt VCP i saw one go cheap on ebay recently...i guess you will pay extra until you dont.......and that poor guy that overpayed will have noone to sell it too ....all comes to end eventually......i know at least 15 set collectors that have one that arent selling so you may be helping them since they didnt pay a premum but i know a few 1952 hoarders from years ago that had many more examples of the card they wanted compared what you have for #332 and now you can buy those cards with a price that wouldnt give you a second thought that someone may have large amount of the market share on that card because its not reflective on price...

i think one way to raise the market a little is to burn what you have on youtube! Farmers pour out milk to raise milk prices........but i know you state you arent trying to raise the market you have a connection to the ballplayer

I

[Peter_Spaeth]

Having bought two cards from Levi, perhaps you should retract your reference to him in your initial post as a "scammer."

[dollarscholar]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Having bought two cards from Levi, perhaps you should retract your reference to him in your initial post as a "scammer."

Done. Really don't appreciate their lack of compromise or flexibility, so my opinion of them stands, regardless of buying from them to further a goal, but the words have been removed.

[dollarscholar]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

the link doesnt show but one auction isnt VCP i saw one go cheap on ebay recently...i guess you will pay extra until you dont.......and that poor guy that overpayed will have noone to sell it too ....all comes to end eventually......i know at least 15 set collectors that have one that arent selling so you may be helping them since they didnt pay a premum but i know a few 1952 hoarders from years ago that had many more examples of the card they wanted compared what you have for #332 and now you can buy those cards with a price that wouldnt give you a second thought that someone may have large amount of the market share on that card because its not reflective on price...

i think one way to raise the market a little is to burn what you have on youtube! Farmers pour out milk to raise milk prices........but i know you state you arent trying to raise the market you have a connection to the ballplayer

I

Just paid $750 for a PSA 7.5 & that was a private sale from Ed Hazuka. Not worried about market price. Just trying to obtain many examples of each grade for personal family collection of Tony.

Are you saying those 1952 hoarders you know will or won't sell their #332 duplicates? Put out the word to them, & the 15 set holders you know that when they are going to do their set breaks, sell #332 to me, not PWCC or probstein, because they will get more from me directly.

The link works now. Revised it.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by dollarscholar

Just paid $750 for a PSA 7.5 & that was a private sale from Ed Hazuka. Not worried about market price. Just trying to obtain many examples of each grade for personal family collection of Tony.

Are you saying those 1952 hoarders you know will or won't sell their #332 duplicates? Put out the word to them, & the 15 set holders you know that when they are going to do their set breaks, sell #332 to me, not PWCC or probstein, because they will get more from me directly.

The link works now. Revised it.

The problem is they will die with their collections..so yeah 20-30 years from now you may see those set breaks.. but you may be the only 1 bidding so you can get them cheap by then....plus there are many raw out there that havent been graded...people can pay what they want but it still going to be a ways to go for the card to be rare on the market...plus really only the ex+or better is what the the registry collectors are looking for... however i will let them know...i sold most of 1952 set to several of the set collectors and thats how i know them..

man first Levi and now Ed Hazuka..but Ed sells at better rates..i actually about 10 or so 1952s from him in the past......

[D. Bergin]

What a fascinating look into the mind of a baseball card hoarder this thread is.


A 19-year old 5'10" 155 lb. 1st Baseman, barely out of High School and only one year of C-Ball under his belt. The Pirates must have been in desperate need of a 1st baseman that year.

He never saw the majors again, but went on to have a pretty respectable minor league career, mostly at AAA.

[dollarscholar]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

The problem is they will die with their collections..so yeah 20-30 years from now you may see those set breaks.. but you may be the only 1 bidding so you can get them cheap by then....plus there are many raw out there that havent been graded...people can pay what they want but it still going to be a ways to go for the card to be rare on the market...plus really only the ex+or better is what the the registry collectors are looking for... however i will let them know...i sold most of 1952 set to several of the set collectors and thats how i know them..
...

To me, I get just as excited about a PSA 1 as a PSA 6.... if I see it available, I want it just as bad. I don't mind paying $200 for a 1, 2, 3, 4 etc. If it's raw and ungraded and looks bad, to me it's worth $150 at least regardless of condition. Of course I do recognize the extra rarity of a 7 and up, & paying handsomely for those.....but overall, I like #332 and try to win it just as aggressively no matter the condition or grade, & usually end up paying the same range for any 1-4 grade of it ($250 or less).

Out of the 346 PSA graded #332, I have about 50 of them now. So almost 20% is in my possession. I have 37 more to get graded to spike the PSA pop. Now owning 20% of the PSA population of #332 does seem to be influencing things lately. Of course, I have zero of the 4 PSA 9's and only 1 PSA 8, but it's an OC Qualifier. Hopefully I'll be able to get a few of the 32 PSA 8's by the end of the year (one is on Robert Edwards now, & one is on Heritage Auctions next month, thanks for the tips guys).

My dad used to have breakfast with him, and Stargell and Richie Zisk & Sanguillen at the pantry (http://www.tripadvisor.com/Restauran...alifornia.html) next to the Los Angeles Biltmore Hotel (where the Pirates would stay).... My Dad got a ball signed from Clemente 2 weeks before he died in the plane crash. My dad was 14 then.

My Dad says he changed his last name to make it easier for announcers to pronounce.... 3 syllables instead of 4.... "Bar - tah - rome .......instead of Bar - tah - ro - mo....

Seems simple to me, but no one ever pronounces our name right.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by dollarscholar

Problem that I am now seeing, & direct proof that I am influencing the actual market, even in an auction style listing for a #332, are these 2 bidders going at it in a bidding war to win it - just to sell it to me:

ebay.com/itm/1952-TOPPS-332-TONY-BARTIROME-VGEX-/361402950360

myrondavis07 won it.
doug.41 was the runner up.

They both understand I pay extra for #332.

Both of them have been bidding against each other for multiple listings of #332 now. If I throw myself into the bidding mix, it creates quite the problem.

The trick is to let those 2 over pay and get stuck with a few of them. You need to have a price limit set for each grade and stick to it otherwise everybody is just going to take advantage of you.

With your buying habits you are influencing the market and will cost yourself a lot of extra $. Influencing the market is really easy. It only takes 2-4 bidders to artificially drive up prices. I have watched a few members on here do it with buying patterns claiming they are collectors and while they still have the market artificially high they dump their "collection" for a huge profit then rinse and repeat.

Sitting back and laughing at how screwed up this hobby is, is as much a part of the hobby to me as collecting the cards.

Good luck on your quest.

[dollarscholar]

Originally Posted by bnorth

Sitting back and laughing at how screwed up this hobby is, is as much a part of the hobby to me as collecting the cards.

Good luck on your quest.

It is entertaining huh!

The worst pirates hitters of all time:

1B Tony Bartirome (1952) — 124 games, 386 plate appearances — .220 AVG/.273 OBP/.265 SLG (44 wRC+)

You have to be a special brand of awful to be a first baseman, no matter what era, and not hit a home run over the course of a season spanning 386 PA’s. The 1952 season was Bartirome’s only season in the Majors.

And yet, his card is worth $100's of dollars because it's a high number! Love it!

In regards to influencing the market / cornering the market:

One dealer believes such:

I simply asked gfg.com guy the following even though I have bought all of them from him, feeling him out for more:

Do you have any of these cards? They are pictured, but no where to click for them:

https://www.gfg.com/cardimg/119/27352.jpg

gfg@gfg.com
Sep 19

no, the guys nephew is trying to corner the market on them, he keeps buying them all up, I have none

Dave

[PGAprocollector]

While I can appreciate what you're doing for the family, that's cool. But there's guy's like me who have made it such a long way in collecting this set. Given the many you have along with the few who actually finish it, would you ever consider selling a PSA 5 or 6? Strictly for the true collector Registered on PSA with the set ... I have the Mantle in a PSA 5, Jackie a 6, Reese a 6, some high numbers are 7's. Collector to collector ... in honor of him ... I'll write a small biography about him ... anything for one single card. And it'll be just another story I can tell my son one day when he gets the set. PLEASE!!!

[7nohitter]

Originally Posted by PGAprocollector

While I can appreciate what you're doing for the family, that's cool. But there's guy's like me who have made it such a long way in collecting this set. Given the many you have along with the few who actually finish it, would you ever consider selling a PSA 5 or 6? Strictly for the true collector Registered on PSA with the set ... I have the Mantle in a PSA 5, Jackie a 6, Reese a 6, some high numbers are 7's. Collector to collector ... in honor of him ... I'll write a small biography about him ... anything for one single card. And it'll be just another story I can tell my son one day when he gets the set. PLEASE!!!

Wait. WHAT???

[swarmee]

Welcome new guy, PGAProCollector. Read the rest of the thread. The Bartirome guy has been banned from this message board.

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by swarmee

Welcome new guy, PGAProCollector. Read the rest of the thread. The Bartirome guy has been banned from this message board.

And he's probably in jail for one of the many scams he was involved in.