scam alert: fake psa cards from ebay seller "cardregistry"

[begsu1013]

Originally Posted by irv

Like Jon, how would one really know until it is too late?

fixed it for you, irv.

i did not get scammed.


how you know is by googling the name you are about to give thousands of dollars to prior to giving it to them.

(he said he found this thread by googling the guy's name AFTER it was too late)



you use amex via paypal so you are protected and there is a paper trail.



cards of a certain caliber you send in to get reviewed or reholdered to verify your cards are real.

(does it suck, sure. but in comparison what is another $85 on top of a couple grand you are forking out?)



use the registry, even if not competing, so you know if a duplicate cert has been created.*


don't meet people off of craigslist.


use reputable dealers.



* that's your cue, jake! ; )

[irv]

Originally Posted by begsu1013

fixed it for you, irv.

i did not get scammed.


how you know is by googling the name you are about to give thousands of dollars to prior to giving it to them.

(he said he found this thread by googling the guy's name AFTER it was too late)



you use amex via paypal so you are protected and there is a paper trail.



cards of a certain caliber you send in to get reviewed or reholdered to verify your cards are real.

(does it suck, sure. but in comparison what is another $85 on top of a couple grand you are forking out?)



use the registry, even if not competing, so you know if a duplicate cert has been created.


don't meet people off of craigslist.


use reputable dealers.

Sorry, Bob, I thought you did as well and that was the reason you started this thread? Just re-read it, my apologies.

Good points.

[begsu1013]

no worries, irv!

[vintagetoppsguy]

FWIW, the Jordan looks real to me, just trimmed. I would have to see the back to be sure. The Jackson is definitely trimmed. They probably buy raw (or maybe even graded) Ex/Mt to NM cards and trim them down to look NM/MT or better and put them in a fake slab with a fake flip. And, it may not even be a fake slab and fake flip. They could be the real deal. Someone at PSA could be "backdooring" them. PSA is a dirty, dirty company.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

FWIW, the Jordan looks real to me, just trimmed. I would have to see the back to be sure. The Jackson is definitely trimmed. They probably buy raw (or maybe even graded) Ex/Mt to NM cards and trim them down to look NM/MT or better and put them in a fake slab with a fake flip. And, it may not even be a fake slab and fake flip. They could be the real deal. Someone at PSA could be "backdooring" them. PSA is a dirty, dirty company.

No way is psa involved.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

No way is psa involved.

Come on, Peter. How easy would it be for an employee to sneak out some slabs and flips?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Come on, Peter. How easy would it be for an employee to sneak out some slabs and flips?

I have no idea. I imagine they have video security and possibly other measures.

[begsu1013]

.

[ajjohnsonsoxfan]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

FWIW, the Jordan looks real to me, just trimmed. I would have to see the back to be sure. The Jackson is definitely trimmed. They probably buy raw (or maybe even graded) Ex/Mt to NM cards and trim them down to look NM/MT or better and put them in a fake slab with a fake flip. And, it may not even be a fake slab and fake flip. They could be the real deal. Someone at PSA could be "backdooring" them. PSA is a dirty, dirty company.

Queue the old guy in the original Willie Wonka movie (which is the best btw), "No one ever goes in, and no one ever comes out!". moohaha....!

To say PSA is in on this is totally absurd. Yeah let's risk a hundreds of millions and our reputation on a couple trimmed cards and fake slabs.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by ajjohnsonsoxfan

Yeah let's risk a hundreds of millions and our reputation on a couple trimmed cards and fake slabs.

Reputation? Are you being serious or just pulling my leg?

This is the SAME COMPANY that graded the T206 Gretzky/McNall Wagner KNOWING THAT IT WAS TRIMMED. That card was the foundation of their business. In other words, their whole business was built on a lie.



Edited to add: I think most here would not do business with a dealer that knowingly sells trimmed cards. Then why would you do business with a company that knowingly grades trimmed cards? And knock it off with the 'but SGC...blah, blah, blah" comparison because they're no better in my opinion.

[iwantitiwinit]

How is PSA complicit in this at all, I don't see it. As previously stated the scam is simple:

1) Obtain a real psa 9 from the market place;

2) Crack open the holder and replace the true psa 9 card with a trimmed/altered card of the same subject that appears to be of high quality after the alteration (the flip is a true flip and will match the registry);

3) Sell the bogus card in the cracked holder with real flip and re-coup original money shelled out to buy the original valid card in 1) above;

4) Take the true psa 9 that you still have and resubmit to psa most likely garnering another psa 9 grade and repeat from step 2) above (all funds received from here on out are profits to the scammer);

5) Repeat over and over again.

Seems pretty simple and clear. Am I missing something? How is PSA complicit, heck even if PSA somehow noticed that someone was resubmitting the same card over and over it could be assumed that they were trying to obtain a higher grade.

I can think of only one solution, PSA has to start putting some type of marking on the card visible only under ultraviolet light. Any card they receive for grading with that marking has to ALSO BE SUBMITTED WITH THE ORIGINAL CASE AND FLIP IN ORDER TO BE REGRADED. What do you think of that solution?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by iwantitiwinit

How is PSA complicit in this at all, I don't see it. As previously stated the scam is simple:

1) Obtain a real psa 9 from the market place;

2) Crack open the holder and replace the true psa 9 card with a trimmed/altered card of the same subject that appears to be of high quality after the alteration (the flip is a true flip and will match the registry);

3) Sell the bogus card in the cracked holder with real flip and re-coup original money shelled out to buy the original valid card in 1) above;

4) Take the true psa 9 that you still have and resubmit to psa most likely garnering another psa 9 grade and repeat from step 2) above (all funds received from here on out are profits to the scammer);

5) Repeat over and over again.

Seems pretty simple and clear. Am I missing something? How is PSA complicit, heck even if PSA somehow noticed that someone was resubmitting the same card over and over it could be assumed that they were trying to obtain a higher grade.

I can think of only one solution, PSA has to start putting some type of marking on the card visible only under ultraviolet light. Any card they receive for grading with that marking has to ALSO BE SUBMITTED WITH THE ORIGINAL CASE AND FLIP IN ORDER TO BE REGRADED. What do you think of that solution?

Invisible or not I cannot imagine people are ready for PSA to be putting a marking on their cards.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by iwantitiwinit

How is PSA complicit in this at all, I don't see it. As previously stated the scam is simple:

1) Obtain a real psa 9 from the market place;

2) Crack open the holder and replace the true psa 9 card with a trimmed/altered card of the same subject that appears to be of high quality after the alteration (the flip is a true flip and will match the registry);

3) Sell the bogus card in the cracked holder with real flip and re-coup original money shelled out to buy the original valid card in 1) above;

4) Take the true psa 9 that you still have and resubmit to psa most likely garnering another psa 9 grade and repeat from step 2) above (all funds received from here on out are profits to the scammer);

5) Repeat over and over again.

Seems pretty simple and clear. Am I missing something? How is PSA complicit, heck even if PSA somehow noticed that someone was resubmitting the same card over and over it could be assumed that they were trying to obtain a higher grade.

I can think of only one solution, PSA has to start putting some type of marking on the card visible only under ultraviolet light. Any card they receive for grading with that marking has to ALSO BE SUBMITTED WITH THE ORIGINAL CASE AND FLIP IN ORDER TO BE REGRADED. What do you think of that solution?

Nice theory, but you're forgetting a few minor little details.

The slabs show no evidence of tampering (no frosting).
The flips show no sign of being cracked out (it's hard to crack out a card and not scratch and/or wrinkle the flip).
The same serial number on the flips are being used over and over on multiple cards (the flips are being mass produced).

[begsu1013]

Originally Posted by iwantitiwinit

I can think of only one solution, PSA has to start putting some type of marking on the card visible only under ultraviolet light.

some think that was already started about 18 months ago w/ the higher valued cards....

but again and as ya mentioned previously....who's to say they are not cracking out going for the higher?



edit: i believe the term is called laser marking / stamping

[Dewey]

Just read from first to last post. This thread is quite the education. I found this site not long ago while looking to gain info on a particular seller. These threads are important. I know no one needs me to point that out, but just my way as a relative novice of thanking and encouraging you vigilant veterans of the hobby. I appreciate it. And even more, I now understand the value of the name policy. Cheers.