Raines, Bagwell and IRod get the call

[jbl79]

Originally Posted by KMayUSA6060

I can't believe Hoffman didn't get in 1st ballot. To me, main difference between him and Mo Rivera (borderline unanimous HoFer) is Mariano played for the Yankees, while Hoffman was a Padre.

Yes, Rivera played for the Yankees but he performed in the postseason. 0.70 ERA with 42 saves in 141 innings in the postseason is what separates him from the other closers. Hoffman will eventually get in but his postseason success doesn't compare. He doesn't quite measure up to Mo in that regard.

[KMayUSA6060]

Originally Posted by jbl79

Yes, Rivera played for the Yankees but he performed in the postseason. 0.70 ERA with 42 saves in 141 innings in the postseason is what separates him from the other closers. Hoffman will eventually get in but his postseason success doesn't compare. He doesn't quite measure up to Mo in that regard.

Right, which is why I brought up the Yankees. To me, the postseason difference is what makes Rivera a borderline unanimous HoFer, more than just a 1st ballot HoFer. Rivera also had 96 postseason appearances, and the Yankees made the playoffs nearly every year.

Can a closer, who is 2nd in MLB history in saves, be punished for only having 12 total postseason appearances (only 4 times did the Padres make the playoffs)? Hoffman is not unanimous, and that's not my argument. But he's 2nd to only Rivera in Career Saves, and Lee Smith isn't even close in 3rd place. He deserved to be a 1st ballot HoFer in my opinion.

[packs]

Originally Posted by KMayUSA6060

Right, which is why I brought up the Yankees. To me, the postseason difference is what makes Rivera a borderline unanimous HoFer, more than just a 1st ballot HoFer. Rivera also had 96 postseason appearances, and the Yankees made the playoffs nearly every year.

Can a closer, who is 2nd in MLB history in saves, be punished for only having 12 total postseason appearances (only 4 times did the Padres make the playoffs)? Hoffman is not unanimous, and that's not my argument. But he's 2nd to only Rivera in Career Saves, and Lee Smith isn't even close in 3rd place. He deserved to be a 1st ballot HoFer in my opinion.

That's not the only thing separating Hoffman from Rivera. Rivera's WAR is 56.6. Hoffman's is 28. Rivera only played one more season than Hoffman but was worth twice as many wins.

[bravos4evr]

Originally Posted by KMayUSA6060

Right, which is why I brought up the Yankees. To me, the postseason difference is what makes Rivera a borderline unanimous HoFer, more than just a 1st ballot HoFer. Rivera also had 96 postseason appearances, and the Yankees made the playoffs nearly every year.

Can a closer, who is 2nd in MLB history in saves, be punished for only having 12 total postseason appearances (only 4 times did the Padres make the playoffs)? Hoffman is not unanimous, and that's not my argument. But he's 2nd to only Rivera in Career Saves, and Lee Smith isn't even close in 3rd place. He deserved to be a 1st ballot HoFer in my opinion.

saves is really a terrible stat. It tells us nothing about a player's actual ability. when compared to Rivera in things like WAR, K/9 BB/9 wRC+ against, ERA+...etc he falls wayyy behind both Rivera and Billy Wagner.

I think Hoffman is a HOF'er, but he wasn't as dominant as his save total says